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ASCAP is serious
- Thread starter Slevage
- Start date
First of all, I have no sympathy for bar owners. That being said, can't they just pay for Spotify and avoid this whole mess?
This is the first article I have seen that states the band is liable too. We have talked about if bands are responsible too and this confirms that we need to be careful.
They are busting all kinds of businesses.
I do contract work for 71 offices in Eastern NC. Several of them got busted for playing music throughout the office where "the public" could hear it. Word came down from "on high" that they could no longer play any music throughout the business. They have to be sneaky. If a receptionist wants to play music behind her from a speaker "for herself", and the public may hear it in his/her vicinity, then OK. But they can't play music through ceiling speakers without paying BMI/ASCAP fees.
Spotify and YouTube pay almost zero to artists. Unless you fill stadiums, you're going broke. My kids were talking about some boy who is a "YouTube star" with millions of followers. They Googled up his net worth, which turned out to he roughly a quarter million (5 years into his "success" on YouTube).
Artists gotta make a buck somewhere. We don't "deserve" free music.
My advice.... If you're a fan of an artist, BUY their work. BUY IT. Order a CD. BUY a download of their albums. PAY them for the joy their music brings you.
If you listen to hours and hours of music a month on Spotify or YouTube (or any number of streaming platforms), and don't BUY any music from your favorite artists, you are part of the problem, not the solution.
Edited to fix half a dozen typos.
I do contract work for 71 offices in Eastern NC. Several of them got busted for playing music throughout the office where "the public" could hear it. Word came down from "on high" that they could no longer play any music throughout the business. They have to be sneaky. If a receptionist wants to play music behind her from a speaker "for herself", and the public may hear it in his/her vicinity, then OK. But they can't play music through ceiling speakers without paying BMI/ASCAP fees.
Spotify and YouTube pay almost zero to artists. Unless you fill stadiums, you're going broke. My kids were talking about some boy who is a "YouTube star" with millions of followers. They Googled up his net worth, which turned out to he roughly a quarter million (5 years into his "success" on YouTube).
Artists gotta make a buck somewhere. We don't "deserve" free music.
My advice.... If you're a fan of an artist, BUY their work. BUY IT. Order a CD. BUY a download of their albums. PAY them for the joy their music brings you.
If you listen to hours and hours of music a month on Spotify or YouTube (or any number of streaming platforms), and don't BUY any music from your favorite artists, you are part of the problem, not the solution.
Edited to fix half a dozen typos.
Last edited:
We should all be FOR ASCAP and BMI raising money to pay artists and songwriters for the use of their intellectual property and copyrighted songs.
Cheap@$$ bar owners need to pay up!
Cheap@$$ bar owners need to pay up!
PaulCISSA
Unsweetened, highly-caffeinated
Solid truths, right there. I couldn’t agree more on all points.
what up with that?
"Jackson Wagener, the group’s business and legal affairs vice president....said the cover band that played is also liable"
I’ve been called a dinosaur for doing this but I always buy the CD. To me it just feels right that I have something physical and that the artist gets paid. I generally purchase from the artist’s website when possible.
This runs counter to everything I've ever heard on here from people who know what they're talking about. If ASCAP is gonna start going after bands, that's a whole new tactic. Hard to see how that is cost effective for them.
Fortunately, they are not going after the band/bands this time.
I agree.
- Oct 18, 2012
- 6,683
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This is nothing new. When I first started playing in clubs in the late 1970s, most venues had ASCAP and BMI stickers on their doors to indicate that they were paying members. Somewhere along the way, many venue owners decided to not pay. Venues are not even allowed to have a radio playing with paying fees.
I have international composing and recording credits. I am glad that venues are being held accountable for their failure to pay fees. I also believe that something needs to be done about how artists are paid for streaming. I do music for several television shows and get paid significantly more money when an episode airs on cable than when it is streamed. Often times for streaming, I only receive 1 cent per episode regardless of how many times it is streamed.
Another thing for bands to consider, especially tribute bands, is the use of the original band's artwork. Tribute bands typically take the original band's logo or other artwork and put their own name on it. My brother is an intellectual property attorney and has told me that the fine for using the original band's artwork is up to $75,000 per use. So if a band creates 6 posters, their total fine could be as high as $450,000.
I have international composing and recording credits. I am glad that venues are being held accountable for their failure to pay fees. I also believe that something needs to be done about how artists are paid for streaming. I do music for several television shows and get paid significantly more money when an episode airs on cable than when it is streamed. Often times for streaming, I only receive 1 cent per episode regardless of how many times it is streamed.
Another thing for bands to consider, especially tribute bands, is the use of the original band's artwork. Tribute bands typically take the original band's logo or other artwork and put their own name on it. My brother is an intellectual property attorney and has told me that the fine for using the original band's artwork is up to $75,000 per use. So if a band creates 6 posters, their total fine could be as high as $450,000.
most of the bar owners around here are more broke than cheap.
Much like the record companies, most of the money doesn't actually make it to the artists though.
Here in Connecticut.....I know nothing about that particular venue.
Some of the tactics used by ASCAP border on something out of "Goodfellas".
Not the first time I've heard this.
Sketchy bills that quote a price based on more hours of music than the bar could ever provide. When explained that the music played is a fraction of what is being estimated, no change.
ASCAP has a point but the stories I've been hearing for 40 years rarely change and these are places that have had issues and still have music.
There are two sides, woukd love to hear them actually talk to each other rather than one side dictate.
So, a band that no longer tours but tribute bands are touring on their name....like say the Beatles.........
What would/should the royalty paid actually be?
A tribute band that makes say even $2K a show, the use of artwork fine seems excessive.
Would make more sense if an agreement could be reached but then you wouldn't need the attorneys as much?
Luckily the cover band I played in did such terrible renditions of songs that no one would be able to identify the original work. Yeeee Haw!
- Oct 18, 2012
- 6,683
- 5,538
- Disclosures
- Endorsing Artist: Fender, Spector, Ampeg, Curt Mangan, Nordstrand Pickups, Korg , Conquest Sound
You can't pay a "royalty" to use another band's artwork. It's Copyright and Trademark infringement. You could possibly buy the artwork but the chances of a band selling it is slim to none. It doesn't matter if the tribute band is making $2,000; $2 or $2 million. It's illegal to use another band's intellectual property. Why should a band be allowed to profit from another band's work? Even if a band wanted to enter into an agreement, attorneys would still be needed and in most cases, the cost would be prohibitive for most local bands.
How would you feel if you found out that someone or some band was using something that you created so that they could profit? The best thing to do is just follow ASCAP and BMI requirements.
I totally support ASCAP and BMI collecting royalties, but there should be a way for venues that don't offer a ton of live music to pay a correspondingly reasonable fee. There are a few places in my area that have simply stopped booking bands entirely because, for the number of times a year they offer live music, the expense can't be justified. I'm talking primarily about restaurants/supper clubs that occasionally offer cocktail music or seasonal events. Why not allow venues/bands to pay for actual use? Email a song list directly to ASCAP and paypal them for the use of the actual songs covered.
I think you would see more smaller venues offer music if they could pay as they went rather than pay an annual fee for performances that may never actually take place. It would be plus money for the licensing organizations, and enable venues and bands to offer live music with a clear conscience and no fear of legal action.
I think you would see more smaller venues offer music if they could pay as they went rather than pay an annual fee for performances that may never actually take place. It would be plus money for the licensing organizations, and enable venues and bands to offer live music with a clear conscience and no fear of legal action.
