ASCAP is serious

[Cliff Colton]

Copyright law isn’t protecting songwriters, it’s protecting copyright holders who are not necessarily in it to promote the useful arts. Maybe the 70 year expiration date should start when the songwriter sells the rights to someone else.

Copyright 2019. All rights reserved.

 

[Bullitt5135]

Resurrecting a zombie thread. Shout out out to @Music Attorney

I've been reading through some old threads about performance licenses, but I haven't seen this particular scenario discussed...

My cover band is trying to book a gig at a local farmers' market that hosts a food truck rally every Wednesday. They are interested in having live music, but they do not want to attract scrutiny over performance licenses (or lack thereof), nor do they want to deal with managing or paying for the license.

So my question is: can a cover band pay the fee for a one-off performance license for a gig? I understand the responsibility is usually on the venue or organizer. I'm aware that this is a case of "it's probably more trouble than it's worth," but this arrangement might open some doors for us in an otherwise tight market, so I thought I'd look into it.

 

[Music Attorney]

Resurrecting a zombie thread. Shout out out to @Music Attorney

I've been reading through some old threads about performance licenses, but I haven't seen this particular scenario discussed...

My cover band is trying to book a gig at a local farmers' market that hosts a food truck rally every Wednesday. They are interested in having live music, but they do not want to attract scrutiny over performance licenses (or lack thereof), nor do they want to deal with managing or paying for the license.

So my question is: can a cover band pay the fee for a one-off performance license for a gig? I understand the responsibility is usually on the venue or organizer. I'm aware that this is a case of "it's probably more trouble than it's worth," but this arrangement might open some doors for us in an otherwise tight market, so I thought I'd look into it.

There's no reason the band can't pay the fee. I found this on a quick search. It's for 2021 but I imagine it'll give you a good reference and I assume you can find something more current.

Of course, that's just for songs in the ASCAP catalog. Depending on which songs you're playing, you may need one from BMI, SESAC, or other third parties if you're really trying to cover your "basses"

And, just for the sake of clarity, the responsibility from a legal standpoint is not on the venue. If a band performs copyrighted songs, then the copyright owner's exclusive right to publicly perform a work and to authorize others to publicly perform it is in play. As a practical matter, venue owners get the performance license and PROs push them (not musicians) to get them. But a band can definitely be sued for copyright infringement if the venue or other responsible party does not pay. Of course, that's unlikely to happen. I'm just stating the law.

Hope that helps.
MA

 

[Ostie]

Resurrecting a zombie thread. Shout out out to @Music Attorney

I've been reading through some old threads about performance licenses, but I haven't seen this particular scenario discussed...

My cover band is trying to book a gig at a local farmers' market that hosts a food truck rally every Wednesday. They are interested in having live music, but they do not want to attract scrutiny over performance licenses (or lack thereof), nor do they want to deal with managing or paying for the license.

So my question is: can a cover band pay the fee for a one-off performance license for a gig? I understand the responsibility is usually on the venue or organizer. I'm aware that this is a case of "it's probably more trouble than it's worth," but this arrangement might open some doors for us in an otherwise tight market, so I thought I'd look into it.

If you have to pay the license fee every time you play, it will cut into your profit margin. Maybe that’s not a problem for you, but it’s something to consider.

 

[Bullitt5135]

If you have to pay the license fee every time you play, it will cut into your profit margin. Maybe that’s not a problem for you, but it’s something to consider.

This band has never been about profit margin. If anything, we are willing to do things in the short term that may benefit the music scene and our community in the long term, such as bringing live music to places that otherwise wouldn't bother with it. I'm fully aware that setting a precedent that bands foot the bill for performance fees is probably a bad idea. The promoter/organizer needs to have some skin in the game. I am also aware that "pay-to-play" or "play for exposure" undermines musicians who perform to put food on their tables. I was just wondering if it's something that others have tried.

 

[SoCal80s]

This band has never been about profit margin. If anything, we are willing to do things in the short term that may benefit the music scene and our community in the long term, such as bringing live music to places that otherwise wouldn't bother with it. I'm fully aware that setting a precedent that bands foot the bill for performance fees is probably a bad idea. The promoter/organizer needs to have some skin in the game. I am also aware that "pay-to-play" or "play for exposure" undermines musicians who perform to put food on their tables. I was just wondering if it's something that others have tried.

You can pay for whatever you want. But to keep it simple, I suggest you tell the venue to get a quote for the one-time license and tell them you'll cover the cost up to $XXX amount, either out of your pay or out of your pocket as you wish.

 

[Bullitt5135]

You can pay for whatever you want. But to keep it simple, I suggest you tell the venue to get a quote for the one-time license and tell them you'll cover the cost up to $XXX amount, either out of your pay or out of your pocket as you wish.

That seems like a fair way to approach it. In reality, it’s not as easy as filling out a web form or calling for a quote since several publishers are always involved. It’s a can of worms. I can see why organizers don’t want to deal with it.

 

[Jazzdogg]

I managed fairly large hotels (350 - 800 rooms) for 30 years AND I was also a working musician in favor of paying artists the royalties they deserve.

In my experience, the basis for the fees assessed by ASCAP, BMI, SESAC, et al was the establishment's ability to pay, and was almost never based on the music played.

I always felt that their method of calculating fees due was B.S.

 

[51PRI]

This band has never been about profit margin. If anything, we are willing to do things in the short term that may benefit the music scene and our community in the long term, such as bringing live music to places that otherwise wouldn't bother with it. I'm fully aware that setting a precedent that bands foot the bill for performance fees is probably a bad idea. The promoter/organizer needs to have some skin in the game. I am also aware that "pay-to-play" or "play for exposure" undermines musicians who perform to put food on their tables. I was just wondering if it's something that others have tried.

Any bar or club has to buy a liquor license that allows them to sell/serve beer. I would imagine that even a local farmer's market has to have a city license in order to operate. It's just part of the cost of doing business. That should be the venue's responsibility, not the bands. IMO.

 

[Bullitt5135]

Any bar or club has to buy a liquor license that allows them to sell/serve beer. I would imagine that even a local farmer's market has to have a city license in order to operate. It's just part of the cost of doing business. That should be the venue's responsibility, not the bands. IMO.

I agree completely. That being said, if I could simply pay $20 a gig for a one-off license – with the expectation that the gig was still worth my while – I would probably just pay it and see how it goes.

 

[Music Attorney]

I found this on a quick search. It's for 2021 but I imagine it'll give you a good reference and I assume you can find something more current.

My first piece of advice is to not get old.

Secondly, what I found, but forgot to include, was this Invalid Link Removed

Let me know if that helps at all.

May be able to provide more help. Just trying to do it on the quick, at the moment, because this kind of stuff isn't part of my daily so it's more time consuming.

Best,
MA

 

[Phud]

I’ve been called a dinosaur for doing this but I always buy the CD. To me it just feels right that I have something physical and that the artist gets paid. I generally purchase from the artist’s website when possible.

I agree. But a lot of todays artists go straight to You Tube or some streaming service and don't do a CD.

 

[Bullitt5135]

My first piece of advice is to not get old.

Secondly, what I found, but forgot to include, was this Invalid Link Removed

Let me know if that helps at all.

May be able to provide more help. Just trying to do it on the quick, at the moment, because this kind of stuff isn't part of my daily so it's more time consuming.

Best,
MA

Thanks, MA. This is immensely helpful and insightful.

 

[alex1fly]

Spotify and YouTube pay almost zero to artists.

Since the recent change to Spotify payout policy I'm making about $20/month from streaming. That's up from about $20/year, lol. Might one day pay off the cost of publishing! My stuff is absolutely unknown, I don't promote it at all, it's just up there. Can't imagine trying to make a living on it, though.