Ashdown and Rickenbacker

[Nerve]

Hullo,

I am currently running my Rickenbacker 4003S ('95) through an Ashdown ABM 500 and ABM 410T (and Sansamp Programmable BDDI, at times). On the face of it, this may seem like a strong combination for good solid warm and punchy tone, but I'm having some trouble getting it to sound the way it should. For some reason all my mid-low tones are quite muddy, even with the eq tweaked and Ric bass tone cranked. I currently have the mid-low frequencies eq'd around 35% to control the muddiness, but I'm losing a lot of volume in the process. I play both finger and pick, and I used to make my old setup (GK 800RB and SWR 2x12) sound nice through the same bass, so I don't think it's my playing.

So in short, are their any Ashdown players out there that have any suggestions? Maybe some eq or input/tube pre setting suggestions that have brought success would get me on the right track. I know this amp should have potential, but I'm starting to wonder... Could it be that Rics just don't fit with Ashdown?

 

[melt]

Hullo,

I am currently running my Rickenbacker 4003S ('95) through an Ashdown ABM 500 and ABM 410T (and Sansamp Programmable BDDI, at times). On the face of it, this may seem like a strong combination for good solid warm and punchy tone, but I'm having some trouble getting it to sound the way it should. For some reason all my mid-low tones are quite muddy, even with the eq tweaked and Ric bass tone cranked. I currently have the mid-low frequencies eq'd around 35% to control the muddiness, but I'm losing a lot of volume in the process. I play both finger and pick, and I used to make my old setup (GK 800RB and SWR 2x12) sound nice through the same bass, so I don't think it's my playing.

So in short, are their any Ashdown players out there that have any suggestions? Maybe some eq or input/tube pre setting suggestions that have brought success would get me on the right track. I know this amp should have potential, but I'm starting to wonder... Could it be that Rics just don't fit with Ashdown?

I use 3 Rics in my main band (73 4000, 91 CS, 72 4001) and I moved to Ashdown from Trace Elliot because I thought I'd get more growl. I had been using a 300SMX head and a single 1153 1x15; this was almost always clear enough whatever situation I played in, and yet was still aggressive sounding (although I think I prefer the GP7s and older GP11s).

The first Ashdown I got was a Klystron 200W 1x15 combo; it sounded great, but in rehearsal (and later in gigs) I really found I was struggling to get clarity. The only bass that really worked was my 4000, which is extremely aggressive sounding and lacks the lows of the other 2 basses. I really struggled with the 4001 and the CS; I could get a great sound out of both, but as soon as the band kicked in I was struggling to hear myself.

I then moved to an ABM500 and 2 GS112 Aguilars and am still struggling for clarity, although having tried Markbass and Trace through the same cabs with the same results I think the cabs are a big factor there. I've yet to play an Ashdown rig that really has the clarity I like when playing in a band, although I do like the underlying sound of them. I find my favourite rigs for the Rics are always Trace; they seem to have oomph and clarity, and in my experience work really well together (although YMMV). In fact I'm probably going back to Trace, assuming I can find something I can carry!

 

[roadkill2309]

I use 3 Rics in my main band (73 4000, 91 CS, 72 4001) and I moved to Ashdown from Trace Elliot because I thought I'd get more growl. I had been using a 300SMX head and a single 1153 1x15; this was almost always clear enough whatever situation I played in, and yet was still aggressive sounding (although I think I prefer the GP7s and older GP11s).

The first Ashdown I got was a Klystron 200W 1x15 combo; it sounded great, but in rehearsal (and later in gigs) I really found I was struggling to get clarity. The only bass that really worked was my 4000, which is extremely aggressive sounding and lacks the lows of the other 2 basses. I really struggled with the 4001 and the CS; I could get a great sound out of both, but as soon as the band kicked in I was struggling to hear myself.

I then moved to an ABM500 and 2 GS112 Aguilars and am still struggling for clarity, although having tried Markbass and Trace through the same cabs with the same results I think the cabs are a big factor there. I've yet to play an Ashdown rig that really has the clarity I like when playing in a band, although I do like the underlying sound of them. I find my favourite rigs for the Rics are always Trace; they seem to have oomph and clarity, and in my experience work really well together (although YMMV). In fact I'm probably going back to Trace, assuming I can find something I can carry!

I think that Ashdowns are really designed to be used with other Ashdowns. They seem to be the most mix-n-match-unfriendly brand around. I matched an Ashdown head with an Ashdown 210 to good effect.

 

[Rhythm5]

I'm using an EVOII 500 with a Berg AE410 and lust love it with pick style rock. Quite honestly, this combination kills! The Ashdown does takes some getting used to the EQ section. To me the Ashdown is not an amp that you just plug in, set everything flat and play. IMO this amp sounds pretty much like cr*p with the EQ off and the shape out of the circuit. To me. that shape button is the key to getting a great Ashdown sound. I have never been able to get the EQ section alone to replicate the sound of that shape circuit. So, here's how I set mine up.

First off, engage that shape circuit!
Next, I turn the bass control down to about 11:00, or about 10:00 if I am playing loud. That shape circuit adds a lot of low end and it helps to roll off a bit with the bass control. (The Ric is pretty shy in the low end dept., so you may need to leave the bass knob at 12:00).
Move the 180Hz slider down the least amount you can past the center detent. This seems to clear up the low end a bit. (Once again, with the Ric, you may want to leave that set flat).
Next, I boost the midrange knob to about 1:00. I feel that shape circuit cuts a little too much mids and I always feel the need to put a liitle back.
Boost the 1.5Khz slider up about 3db to 6db, and leave the treble knob flat.

With my basses, this makes the absolute best pick style rock sound I have ever managed to get from an amp, Ampeg included. I know some TBers balk at having to use that much EQ, but what do I care if an amp sounds great flat or with some EQ? The point is getting the sound you want out of an amp, right? (For what is worth, I have never found a sound I like through ANY amp with everything set flat). As far as the sub harmonics control, I don't use it much, but I read once that Pino Pallidino (a huge Ashdown fan) always uses just a little in his sound. I actually made a foot switch for that circuit and I sometimes use it if I want to play up high on the neck for some part of the song, but don't want the low end to go away (especially when using a pick) . I set it fairly high, about 11:00, and it does a great job of letting me play up high without the band feeling that they just lost the low end from the song.

 

[melt]

I think that Ashdowns are really designed to be used with other Ashdowns. They seem to be the most mix-n-match-unfriendly brand around. I matched an Ashdown head with an Ashdown 210 to good effect.

In my limited experience I think I'd agree.

 

[melt]

I'm using an EVOII 500 with a Berg AE410 and lust love it with pick style rock. Quite honestly, this combination kills! The Ashdown does takes some getting used to the EQ section. To me the Ashdown is not an amp that you just plug in, set everything flat and play. IMO this amp sounds pretty much like cr*p with the EQ off and the shape out of the circuit. To me. that shape button is the key to getting a great Ashdown sound. I have never been able to get the EQ section alone to replicate the sound of that shape circuit. So, here's how I set mine up.

First off, engage that shape circuit!
Next, I turn the bass control down to about 11:00, or about 10:00 if I am playing loud. That shape circuit adds a lot of low end and it helps to roll off a bit with the bass control. (The Ric is pretty shy in the low end dept., so you may need to leave the bass knob at 12:00).
Move the 180Hz slider down the least amount you can past the center detent. This seems to clear up the low end a bit. (Once again, with the Ric, you may want to leave that set flat).
Next, I boost the midrange knob to about 1:00. I feel that shape circuit cuts a little too much mids and I always feel the need to put a liitle back.
Boost the 1.5Khz slider up about 3db to 6db, and leave the treble knob flat.

With my basses, this makes the absolute best pick style rock sound I have ever managed to get from an amp, Ampeg included. I know some TBers balk at having to use that much EQ, but what do I care if an amp sounds great flat or with some EQ? The point is getting the sound you want out of an amp, right? (For what is worth, I have never found a sound I like through ANY amp with everything set flat). As far as the sub harmonics control, I don't use it much, but I read once that Pino Pallidino (a huge Ashdown fan) always uses just a little in his sound. I actually made a foot switch for that circuit and I sometimes use it if I want to play up high on the neck for some part of the song, but don't want the low end to go away (especially when using a pick) . I set it fairly high, about 11:00, and it does a great job of letting me play up high without the band feeling that they just lost the low end from the song.

I always engage the shape circuit too (similar in that respect to the Trace's; it's key to the sound IMHO). My settings are not dissimilar to yours except I have the treble on flat out, the 1.3 varies according to room, and the 2.6 is pretty near flat out too. And I'm still not clear or trebly enough (bear in mind I never use tweeters; never had to with Trace, even with a 1x15, and I don't like the tone they tend to bring, even when used in moderation). It was the same with the Ashdown combo I had; top end flat out and still struggling to be heard(although on its own it sounded great).

Regarding using eq, I'm with you. The other day I watched some old live footage of me playing my 72 Ric through my old Trace AH150 and Mk1 4x10. It sounded unreal, the best sound I've ever heard. When I checked out the eq showing on the head, it was the most drastic eq you've ever seen in your life; the sliders were all over the place! But it sounded awesome...

 

[Nerve]

Thanks for the tips guys, they are really appreciated.

Melt and Roadkill2309: I actually found the same thing with matching (somewhat). I tried my 2x12s (4 ohms) for a while and it worked alright, but I still had the mud. Finally when I added the 410t it cleared up a bit, but it seems like the same problems remain. Strange, considering you'd think a Ric wouldn't have these problems. Now that I have the 410t, I'm looking for a good 2x12 (at 8 ohms) to complement the sound. A single 15 might just be too deep for me, although I think the Ashdown 2x12 is hard to come by.

Rhythm5 and Melt: Thanks for those eq tips guys. I'll give them a go in a couple days and see how they sound. I know that the pre-set eq throws in a mid-low bump that sits between a couple of the eq settings (as far as I could tell in my experimenting) so I'm worried about it just adding to the mid-low muddiness, but I'm definitely excited to fiddle with the settings you guys recommended. I also run the tube channel anywhere between 12 - 2 o'clock. I don't think it'spart of the issue, but could it be?

 

[Rhythm5]

The tube channel set at mid way is a good place to have some edge and still keep definition in the low end. Here's another Ashdown tip. Try using a good compressor pedal before the amp. I find that using one lets me keep better control of the gain going into the tube channel. I tend to get a little into things on stage and will often dig in too hard on the E and B string. This tends to overload the tube channel too much and it's easy to go from nice warn tube saturation to ugly distortion fairly easily on this amp. The compressor helps keep my levels in check and really lets me dial in the amount of tube grind more precisely as well as keep it consistant. I use a Demeter Compulator which is a GREAT compressor. It is super transparent and doesn't suck the life out of your tone. It really is the best I have used, but I also like the Aphex Punch Factory. It is pretty good as well.
Just remember that you really need to try these EQ suggestions in a band rehearsal situation. What sounds good to your ear played at home by yourself is usually not the sound that is going to work in a live situation. I usually hate my live EQ settings when I am practicing at home.

 

[Nerve]

Awesome. Great advice Rhythm5, thanks.

I'm excited to try out these settings. For some reason I ignored the preset eq altogether. I guess that's not too strange considering presets on most other pieces of gear I use aren't worth bothering with.

I have been using the tube pre at 12 o'clock and a bit over, so I think I figured that part out pretty well. We'll see what the difference is with the preset eq on.

I almost bought the Ashdown dual-band compressor Craigslist about a month ago, but it disappeared as suddenly as it had appeared so I missed my opportunity. Any experience with the Ashdown compressor? Dual-band seems like a pretty cool idea.