ashdown -> china

[Matthew Bryson]

I have a good friend and co-worker who was born in China and has lived in the states for about 25 years. He has family, friends, and business acquaintances still in China and he visits every few years. It is my understanding that most of what the world thinks about China is pretty outdated. There have been absolutely huge changes in China in the last ten years in regards to human rights, the average citizen's lifestyle, and manufacturing technology. My friend was particularly blown away by the changes he saw on his last trip (about a year ago - it had been about 5 years sense his previous visit) He says that when he left China he could not have dreamt that it would ever be the way it is today. "Open" is the word he uses most often to describe China's domestic policies. When my friend left China 25 years ago, almost nobody had a telephone in their home. Now, they all have home phones and computers and cell phones. They teased my friend because his 1 year old phone was so outdated - they all had small color display mobile phones with email capability, basically state of the art stuff better than what me or my friend have here. I really think a lot of people are basing their mistrust of China on very old information - a lot has changed. The Chinese should get some credit for changing as much as they have. The biggest problems in China right now are drugs and prostitution are running rampant because people have more money and more freedom than ever before and basically, everything that is available to people anywhere in the world is now available to the average Chinese person for the first time ever. Also a lot of vanity and plastic surgery going based on a television program I watched a few nights ago. I think the people that are being so hard on China are basing their opinions on the China of 20 years ago. Much has changed. Notice how it seems like every manufacturer seems to have some manufacturing done in China? Do you really think that they are all evil and exploit child slave labor, or can you admit that the factory workers are neither slaves nor children? If you don't want to buy from a country that has a sketchy track record on human rights, you'd better avoid American products as well.

 

[bmc]

United Arab Emerates ?{sp}
if you really have lived in the Persian gulf area , { Saudi Arabia , or Yemen } , surely you know slavery is STILL practiced today . we have people everday come to America to escape such living conditions ... i don't mean to rant here , but i do know slavery is very much alive today , in much of the Arab world
{ also in African nations as well as many asian countries } .

i just don't think it's something we as free people should take lightly... again , jmo ...

I'm sorry David. I lived in Bahrain for three years. Great place. NO SLAVERY. Hate to burst the bubble on ya. Yes...plenty of migrant workers from the Sub continent earning USD160 a month (housing food provided...and these guys are friggin millionaires back home).

Spent time in Qatar, Abu Dhabi, Oman, Dubai, Sharjah. Loved it. Brought my wife and two young daughters there. Never locked the car ever and never locked the house ever. In fact, left the girls alone at home at ages 12 and 10. Know why? Because it's safe. They don't tolerate crime. You screw up, you disappear. And as horrible as that sounds, you know what? It's really effective. If you are a peaceful law abiding citizen, what do you have to worry about? There was a time when Bahrain was at the top of Amnesty's sh*t list, but that was a while ago.

All of my staff were Arab (shiite). Took my family into their homes and into their culture. Great food. Lots of laughs. Very warm, polite hospitable people. They are people. Like you and I David. It doesn't fit the images we have from watching CNN does it?

The images I went there with did not match up to the reality of the experience. I learned a lot. I learned alot about family values that we have lost in the west. There is much to learn about from other places. All is not bad out there.


Should I tell Arabs there that all American kids pack pieces to school? That Columbine happens every week somewhere in the USA? Those are the stories that make the news over there.

There is no slavery in the UAE. While people are emigrating to many places, they are not escaping slavery in the UAE. Sorry. Asia? Africa?
You're painting a dramatic exagerated image.

 

[bmc]

It is my understanding that most of what the world thinks about China is pretty outdated. There have been absolutely huge changes in China in the last ten years in regards to human rights, the average citizen's lifestyle, and manufacturing technology.

The first time I went to Beijing, the road to the airport was a country road. Walking the streets at night, you'd swear the street lamps were 100 watt bulbs. You could see figures moving on the sidewalk but could not make out faces.

I returned 3-4 years later to drive in on an expressway. I arrived about a week after BB King opened the Hard Rock Cafe in Beijing. That had to be at least 10 years ago. At that time, less bicycles on the road and more Mercedes. Jeans, fashion, rock music has invaded China. Young people are traveling and spending money. It's a different place.

Still...they have a less than glowing record on HR abuses.

(...at least we haven't said Behringer too much this time...)

 

[DaveDeVille]

All of my staff were Arab (shiite). Took my family into their homes and into their culture. Great food. Lots of laughs. Very warm, polite hospitable people. They are people. Like you and I David. It doesn't fit the images we have from watching CNN does it?
There is no slavery in the UAE. While people are emigrating to many places, they are not escaping slavery in the UAE. Sorry. Asia? Africa?
You're painting a dramatic exagerated image.

i'm not saying the people who live in these countries are evil . quite the contrary ... i do know that slavery { in one form or another }does exist there and have talked to someone who escaped to America . is the Taliban practicing slavery of women and female children ? are non-paid servants considered slaves ? is someone who is denied basic human rights because of their class or religion , considered a slave ? in my book , yes ...
i doubt the staff you mentioned would talk about this subject , it's not something to talk about at a party ... i'm not saying anything bad about your friends either . i'm sure they are very nice and polite people ...

i guess it's how you look at it and who you talk to { i'm not a big fan of CNN , by the way } . again , i don't usually talk politics , because it's a no win situation . also this thread has gotten far from the original question ... my apoligies to anyone i may have offended ...

 

[bmc]

Hey David...let's start a list of topics that are verbotten. I'll go first.

1. Behringer
2. Anything made in China

Your turn.

 

[DaveDeVille]

1. Behringer
2. Anything made in China

Your turn.

i can live with that , except the original thread was about a product made in China ...
BTW , i also have a couple of friends who have lived in Saudi Arabia .
they tend to be very nice people , one of whom was a former room-mate .

verbotten :
1 . Behringer
2. religions

 

[bmc]

I don't know whether to laugh or cry when I read that. Both, I guess.

Please don't make these excellent posts like you've been doing, decrying people's simplistic media-fed views of foregn cutlures, and then spew something so simplistic and ridiculous as the above quote.

Sorry if it read as it did. The starkness of the questionable judicial process seemed so cut and dried that I found it easiest to describe as such.

Coming from Canada, the application of justice was clear: screw up and someone will decide your fate. Amnesty International took strong issue with the application of justice in Bahrain for many years. The death of the last Amir in 1999 saw the prisons emptied and a new era in the administration of justice. Things got a whole lot better.

One conclusion I arrived at early on in my stay was how tolerant we are of crime in the west. When you live in a place with strong responses to illegal behaviour, you realize what an effective deterrant it is. So if you are a law abiding citizen, your comfort level rises as you know things are pretty safe.

Sorry for that. Didn't mean to be flippant about it.

I'm done with this thread.

Back to gear talk. Sorry folks for the diversion and reading my dribble. I'll do my best to stay on topic next time.

 

[lsimy]

I was knocking Chinese stuff for a while. Not being nasty but just not into buying amps and such Chinese made. Korea got into the mfg thing with guitars and are now really up to better standards. It might still be a few years before China is up to the Korean standards of guitar manufacturing. Then the whole shootin match will move to another country !!!!

I was quite put off reading about Ashdown using Chinese mfg for their lower lines but I understand business is business. I won't be buying any of it since I buy Ashdown for the work and craftsmanship of Mr.Gooday and his crew there in England. For amps and basses, I'm still pretty hardcore North American and European.

I will add however that my friend has (2) Mapex drum kits now which have been Chinese mfg'd for years. They are super nice and sound fantastic. The mfg plant for Mapex has won awards for mfg excellence and very high standards. Great drums.

Just my opinion though.

 

[DaveDeVille]

The righteous part of me agrees with the above sentiment 1000%, but the part of me that's been around long enough to see and read about the extent of real (in)Justice in the present and past knows better.
Until priviledged persons dictating "laws" that only apply to the lower classes are outlawed, I'd rather err on the side of caution. If a shoplifter goes free instead of "disappearing" then so be it. Pens are for pigs, not the poor. I say this despite me being an economically upper-class law-abiding citizen with no arrest record.

Cheers.

amen, brother

 

[bmc]

Smash..

"A man with a briefcase can steal more money than a man with a gun"

- Don Henley

 

[MattyN]

sorry to have hijacked this post with my political ramblings...

its all good... interesting stuff!

however, if anyone has an answer to my original question. i'm still curious.

are the chinese made ashdown MAGS lower quality than their british made predecessors?

nonetheless... i went out on a limb and ordered one so i'll let you y'all know how it works out.

-M

 

[Scott D]

I've been contemplating the new Electric Blue combos. They are very reasonably priced, high-power (for a combo) and relatively light-weight (~40lbs). If you get the 12" version, it's $279, plus shipping, which comes out to $295. If you get the 15" version, it's $299, with free shipping. I'm probably going to order the 15" version. Has anyone checked these out yet? I'm sick of lugging my head + 100lb 4x10 to small practices (it's the only amp I have...)

Thanks,
Scott D.