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AudioKinesis Cabs V!!!!
- Thread starter Chef
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I'm tryin'; honest!
More like New Math.
Or...you got chocolate in my peanut butter.
More like New Math.
Or...you got chocolate in my peanut butter.
Hey, at least this isn't a fEARful thread. You would be coached on 'how to hear correctly'
Yeah, the Audiokinesis cabs (like any other cabs) have their own voicing, and that kind of 'pure, zero distortion, totally even response (especially up top) is wonderful, but 'it is what it is'. I too LOVE the sound of the top end of a driver screaming for mercy when pushed... nothing better to me, and it is why I still own my Berg AE cabs. All good flavors, and I love the TC115 for what it does, as well as my Berg's.
To support and give a specific example of Chef's 'it's complicated' comment, my two 'small gig rigs' are a good example.
I have a Berg AE210 (the smoother voiced later 'vertical' model) and the Thunderchild112. Those two cabs provide a TOTALLY different experience when gigging, and no amount of knob turning or head swapping makes them sound the same.
The Berg AE210 is 8ohms, tightly voiced down low, nice presence in the low mids, smooth upper mids that can still grind a bit when pushed, and a very pure, extended top end that never gets sizzly. When I hit my P bass with some 'digging in' the cab itself growls and grinds a bit. And, the J tone is very 'classic 70's funk'... a bit ganky up top, tight and a bit compressed down low.
The Thunderchild112 is 4ohms, and that 'makes up for' the lower sensitivity of that box. The maximum volume is almost identical between the 8ohm AE210 and the 4ohm Thunderchild112 (with the same 300 into 8ohm, 500 into 4ohm head). The TC112 is much deeper voiced/more true low end, NO low mid bump, and has a more relaxed midrange response overall that WILL NOT break up ever. The top end is 'lower treble pure' and while Duke's horn extends way up top on the graph's I've seen, it doesn't really come through on the gig. It results in a fat, wide, warm, polite tone that doesn't react to transients as much as the Berg (which is a good thing in its own way). With the P, it can sound pretty sterile. With the J, it gives you that 'playing through a mixing board into a studio monitor' vibe, which is very cool in its own way.
Very different.... I play differently when using these two cabs, and both the players and the 'sophisticated audience members' I talk to notice the difference.
Fun to have a couple different flavors. My large rigs (AE212 or Thunderchild115) mirror the differences described above, so I can 'pick and choose' for any gig size.
I have a Berg AE210 (the smoother voiced later 'vertical' model) and the Thunderchild112. Those two cabs provide a TOTALLY different experience when gigging, and no amount of knob turning or head swapping makes them sound the same.
The Berg AE210 is 8ohms, tightly voiced down low, nice presence in the low mids, smooth upper mids that can still grind a bit when pushed, and a very pure, extended top end that never gets sizzly. When I hit my P bass with some 'digging in' the cab itself growls and grinds a bit. And, the J tone is very 'classic 70's funk'... a bit ganky up top, tight and a bit compressed down low.
The Thunderchild112 is 4ohms, and that 'makes up for' the lower sensitivity of that box. The maximum volume is almost identical between the 8ohm AE210 and the 4ohm Thunderchild112 (with the same 300 into 8ohm, 500 into 4ohm head). The TC112 is much deeper voiced/more true low end, NO low mid bump, and has a more relaxed midrange response overall that WILL NOT break up ever. The top end is 'lower treble pure' and while Duke's horn extends way up top on the graph's I've seen, it doesn't really come through on the gig. It results in a fat, wide, warm, polite tone that doesn't react to transients as much as the Berg (which is a good thing in its own way). With the P, it can sound pretty sterile. With the J, it gives you that 'playing through a mixing board into a studio monitor' vibe, which is very cool in its own way.
Very different.... I play differently when using these two cabs, and both the players and the 'sophisticated audience members' I talk to notice the difference.
Fun to have a couple different flavors. My large rigs (AE212 or Thunderchild115) mirror the differences described above, so I can 'pick and choose' for any gig size.
Ken really summed it up there. I think that Duke is trying to hit some of that happy middle ground with the Hathor and I really hope that he does. I've seen so many players on here love their fearfuls and similar at first but then long for that "bass cab" sound. Im one of them and Ken points out why. In the end, alot of guys may do well to have one of each type for different occasions. Or at least to have as a reference so that they aren't stuck in the horrible buy/sell/trade loop. Yeah, Im trying to get out of that loop currently. 
You should give Duke a call:--> [Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
(he's really a cool guy to talk to!)
Its just that growing sensation to find your ultimate cabinet. In reality there is no such thing. You can find fault with any cab, head and unfortunately player. I guess we as humans, always trying to advance ourselves. I love my TC15AF, which by the way was recommended by you, thanks. Can I find fault? sure but I still love it. My Favorite. But I love when I hear on TB when guys describe a cabinet and wish it had more of but use other words. "Polite" is a big one. It has polite highs...It has polite lows....The cabinet sounds great with its polite upper mids..... We all want to control all the frequencies of a cabinet. But Chef there is no ultimate cabinet. Just the best for you. We have to watch our credit cards. Have fun with the TC212.
Not sure of the point you are making here, but as an FYI, the way some of us use 'polite' on this site has NOTHING to do with the 'amount' of a given frequency, but rather the nature of the delivery of that frequency. It is also not, in ANY way, an indication of negative or positive performance. However, it is a great descriptor of the amount of distortion in the upper midrange, and also the amount of 10K sizzle in the output of a cab.
Duke understands this very well, and his TC cabs are the definition of a 'polite' top end (IMO and IME), which can work wonderfully in many situations. Duke understands that having some 'top of the driver' breakup at higher frequencies is also a beautiful tone for some, and it is why he is working with different designs at the moment.
One of the worst 'oversimplifications' on this site is that you can change 'everything' in a cabs' voicing with EQ. That is definitely not the case.
Just FYI, since you seem to think that 'polite' is in some way a negative term.
For the first time, I just played my TC115 with four port plugs installed and a tube amp. This would be a good configuration when the music calls for bass being "felt but not heard." Very smooth bass layering just underneath the music in a background kind of way ("extremely polite?" 
). My jazz project will work better with two ports plugged, but I can see a definite use case for four ports being plugged. These configurations change the nature of the cab in very specific ways. None is right or wrong ... it all depends on the application's requirements.
). My jazz project will work better with two ports plugged, but I can see a definite use case for four ports being plugged. These configurations change the nature of the cab in very specific ways. None is right or wrong ... it all depends on the application's requirements.
Rather than launch into a rather long winded Robert Persig based "what is the nature of quality" diatribe here, let me try working this backwards...
From certain perspectives, "we all know what quality is."
You'd immediately recognize the non-quality of a speaker cab that arrived at your house with tolex peeling off, grill that rattled, corners not square, poor bracing that made it vibrate like a Mo-Fo....right?
Ok then.
Now, take two cabs that personify quality: perfect fit and finish, top shelf hardware, excellent craftsmanship.
Which one "is best?"
At that level, "there is not best."
Cabinet A has this range of excellent speaker, crossover, mid-driver and or horn.
Cabinet B as an equally excellent range of completely different components.
Of course, they sound quite different from each other.
This represents no deficit of quality in either.
How something sounds is much more subjective and personal.
Blue, or red?
Chocolate, or peanut butter?
I'm probably looking for a blue and red speaker cab, that tastes like "hey, you got chocolate on my peanut butter."
You dig me now?
From certain perspectives, "we all know what quality is."
You'd immediately recognize the non-quality of a speaker cab that arrived at your house with tolex peeling off, grill that rattled, corners not square, poor bracing that made it vibrate like a Mo-Fo....right?
Ok then.
Now, take two cabs that personify quality: perfect fit and finish, top shelf hardware, excellent craftsmanship.
Which one "is best?"
At that level, "there is not best."
Cabinet A has this range of excellent speaker, crossover, mid-driver and or horn.
Cabinet B as an equally excellent range of completely different components.
Of course, they sound quite different from each other.
This represents no deficit of quality in either.
How something sounds is much more subjective and personal.
Blue, or red?
Chocolate, or peanut butter?
I'm probably looking for a blue and red speaker cab, that tastes like "hey, you got chocolate on my peanut butter."
You dig me now?
I grok. No 1 cab can possibly be all things to all people all the time, no matter how "good" it is.
Well, red and blue makes purple. Best of both worlds. You could buy this P-bass to rock that cab
You did just say "However, it is a great descriptor of the amount of distortion in the upper midrange, and also the amount of 10K sizzle in the output of a cab."
.. Thats exactly what I meant. People hear a cab and it does not hear or say it has enough audible highs they say polite. No big deal.
Well, red and blue makes purple. Best of both worlds. You could buy this P-bass to rock that cab
Tell you the truth I kind of like the color of that bass. How does it sound? Sort of a pink bass that discolored with age.
I thought long and hard about buying it. By all reports it sounds and plays amazing. It is a '63 and is for sale in the classified. Shell pink.
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