I would not recommend a used TT. You just never know.
A great, fairly budget spinner is a Rega P1. You know it will work as intended and sound good. You can always upgrade the cartridge down the road too.
Enjoy the benefits of a premium membership!
Upgrade Account
-
TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
Join free Log in
Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.
Double Bass Audiophile Turntable Recommendations for a Reasonable Price?
- Thread starter Keith Rawlings
- Start date
I would not recommend a used TT. You just never know.
A great, fairly budget spinner is a Rega P1. You know it will work as intended and sound good. You can always upgrade the cartridge down the road too.
Pro-ject Carbon worked nicely for me: I bought it to replace the SL1200 that I left behind when moving countries, and it was my first experience of clearly hearing details that I didn't even know were in there. Be aware that it needs an external phono preamp somewhere in the chain, but Pro-ject sell their own one that's neatly matched to it.
My second experience of that kind was from running that turntable through a mixer to monitor speakers. Granted, that was an upgrade from small plastic Logitech boxes, so it seems likely that any good hi-fi system will work.
The SL1200 is still popular among DJs, but it's worth remembering that their use-case is different to a home hi-fi user's. We don't typically beat-match, scratch, or have any strong need for the platter to spin up instantly.
As an aside, I'll never forget a friend-of-a-friend DJ demonstrating the instant spin-up of an SL1200 through a (then) state-of-the-art 10 kilowatt PA system by slapping his hand down on the record to stop it, then letting go... with a packed dancefloor. The sight of all those heads turning in unison with a "what the...?!" expression was priceless
Anyways, a key thing in there is the part about scratching. Because that's a thing, DJ turntables often come with a stylus with a blunted tip, so it does less damage when being pushed backwards through the groove. The trade-off is the amount of detail they're physically unable to pick up. You can replace the stylus, of course, but that's one more additional step to factor in when you're deciding which to buy.
My second experience of that kind was from running that turntable through a mixer to monitor speakers. Granted, that was an upgrade from small plastic Logitech boxes, so it seems likely that any good hi-fi system will work.
The SL1200 is still popular among DJs, but it's worth remembering that their use-case is different to a home hi-fi user's. We don't typically beat-match, scratch, or have any strong need for the platter to spin up instantly.
As an aside, I'll never forget a friend-of-a-friend DJ demonstrating the instant spin-up of an SL1200 through a (then) state-of-the-art 10 kilowatt PA system by slapping his hand down on the record to stop it, then letting go... with a packed dancefloor. The sight of all those heads turning in unison with a "what the...?!" expression was priceless
Anyways, a key thing in there is the part about scratching. Because that's a thing, DJ turntables often come with a stylus with a blunted tip, so it does less damage when being pushed backwards through the groove. The trade-off is the amount of detail they're physically unable to pick up. You can replace the stylus, of course, but that's one more additional step to factor in when you're deciding which to buy.
As far as used tables, you've already missed the golden age around 1990 where everyone was switching to CD and dumping vinyl and the turntables as well. I was concerned about needing to buy a backup for my Technics SL1500 before turntables disappeared altogether and bought a Technics SL-3200, from a coworker for $25. Yes $25. 40 years old and still rocking, with a Shure V-15.
Earl
Supporting Member
I get the same thing with that record. I think it may be more of a problem with the way it was recorded/mixed than your system.
Whoa. That‘s way more than I spent on mine, but it seems I was lucky. IIRC, I paid the danish equivalent of $500.
Is eBay still a thing for private sellers? I lost touch with eBay long ago. I found it on a danish classified website (owned by eBay, nevertheless, but more like CL). Depending on where you are, pawn shops may be a possibility as well.
And a record player is definitely not something I would buy shipped, only local pickup or shop.
Best
Sidecar
Last edited:
Yeah, I didn't pay that much, but they are expensive.
I wouldn't balk at buying one on-line from a good shop, but I would hesitate with a used turntable on eBay unless you really knew what you were doing and were either willing to sort it out on your end or have it serviced once received.
It's really weird as it sounds wonderful on my Apple Music download. Maybe it is the vinyl mix.
Following up on my earlier post, my son just got delivery of a basic Pro-ject package:
Primary E turntable
Stereo Box S2 BT amp
Speaker Box 5 bookshelf speakers
The big surprise is the size of the amp - which is minuscule. It only supports two cable inputs, but uses Bluetooth to connect to smart devices (like his TV). Sound is great for the size and cost of the package. Here in Oz the cost was around US 750 for the lot, including all taxes. Should be somewhat cheaper in the US or EU.
Primary E turntable
Stereo Box S2 BT amp
Speaker Box 5 bookshelf speakers
The big surprise is the size of the amp - which is minuscule. It only supports two cable inputs, but uses Bluetooth to connect to smart devices (like his TV). Sound is great for the size and cost of the package. Here in Oz the cost was around US 750 for the lot, including all taxes. Should be somewhat cheaper in the US or EU.
Off topic, but ..... Holy moly - I had never heard this "Double Bass" album with NHOP and Sam Jones. I'm going to make a cassette today with it on the back side of "Doublebass Delights" with Rufus and Michael Moore. This should keep me in transcription projects for the next 2-5 years, lol. Are there any other albums in this vein that I don't know about? (sorry to potentially derail your thread, Keith)... Slightly related, get you a good cassette deck (Nakamichi, etc) and a solid direct drive walkman and you'll find yourself not even listening to vinyl anymore...
Really? Duping vinyl albums to cassette and using a Walkman? Holy cow, it's 1978 again in all its lo-fi glory!
I mean, why not just go back to wax cylinders?
I endured the cassette and LP era and I have less than zero interest in reliving that. Yeah, I suppose theoretically a very expensive pressing, kept in immaculate condition, and only rarely played with a needle in perfect condition, can sound really good, but in the real world LPs don't sound so good after 50 playings or more; plus there are wives and room-mates who just will NOT handle them by the edges, there's dust in the air, and heaven forbid you buy an LP and try to bring it home in the car in Texas in August. You better go straight home - you leave that record in a hot car (worse yet, in the sunlight) for any length of time and you've got a $20+ potato chip.
Cassettes sound pretty good when they're brand new, if you get all the Dolby stuff just right, but after a few dozen playings first the midrange starts to disappear then the high range and you've just got a muddy mess of sound - until, that is, the deck decides to eat the tape, when if you're lucky you'll catch it while you can still unsnarl it from the innards. If you don't catch it in time you'll have to yank it out of there, breaking and stretching and wrinkling the tape in the process.
I know for every ass there's a seat, but I'm really not feeling this desire to revert to a less-durable, lower-fidelity-in-real-world medium.
I mean, why not just go back to wax cylinders?
I endured the cassette and LP era and I have less than zero interest in reliving that. Yeah, I suppose theoretically a very expensive pressing, kept in immaculate condition, and only rarely played with a needle in perfect condition, can sound really good, but in the real world LPs don't sound so good after 50 playings or more; plus there are wives and room-mates who just will NOT handle them by the edges, there's dust in the air, and heaven forbid you buy an LP and try to bring it home in the car in Texas in August. You better go straight home - you leave that record in a hot car (worse yet, in the sunlight) for any length of time and you've got a $20+ potato chip.
Cassettes sound pretty good when they're brand new, if you get all the Dolby stuff just right, but after a few dozen playings first the midrange starts to disappear then the high range and you've just got a muddy mess of sound - until, that is, the deck decides to eat the tape, when if you're lucky you'll catch it while you can still unsnarl it from the innards. If you don't catch it in time you'll have to yank it out of there, breaking and stretching and wrinkling the tape in the process.
I know for every ass there's a seat, but I'm really not feeling this desire to revert to a less-durable, lower-fidelity-in-real-world medium.
In all fairness, I am blessed with possibly the best cassette deck for making recordings ever produced (Nak ZX-9 with full Willy Hermann restoration) and a killer Quartz DD walkman. That being said, YMMV, but I find my cassette fidelity actually superior to CD. My CD player sounds great (Nak CDP-2A), but isn't nearly as reliable as the cassette deck. Streaming services are fine well and good (I dup from Spotify typically, not LP - tried Tidal streaming, but didn't notice the difference in fidelity). I like feeling like I "own" the recording and get overwhelmed and paralyzed with too many options (and prefer listening to stuff over and over and over again to really digest it). Also, I have a sensitivity to electromagnetic radiation and try to avoid screen-time (TB excluded, lol), cell phone and wifi signals, etc, whenever possible... Sure, I have to break out the iso alcohol and clean the deck and the walkman about every month, but it's worth it to me.
Furthermore, I've got this whole theory about how listening through analog sources actually improves relative hearing. I figure small, imperceptible changes and variations in speed and pitch cause the mind to have to contextualize the content in a deeper way than static, always exactly-the-same digital recordings do, lending to a deeper listening/digesting experience. This translates then to an easier time contextualizing within flawed real-life playing context (where variables are many). This could be total BS (probably is), but I've been thinking about it for almost two decades and think there really might be something to it.
Plus, I like the idea of transference -- by the time the tape (or LP for that matter) wears out, through active listening I've got the recording well established within my own head - a mental "recording", if that makes any sense.
Furthermore, I've got this whole theory about how listening through analog sources actually improves relative hearing. I figure small, imperceptible changes and variations in speed and pitch cause the mind to have to contextualize the content in a deeper way than static, always exactly-the-same digital recordings do, lending to a deeper listening/digesting experience. This translates then to an easier time contextualizing within flawed real-life playing context (where variables are many). This could be total BS (probably is), but I've been thinking about it for almost two decades and think there really might be something to it.
Plus, I like the idea of transference -- by the time the tape (or LP for that matter) wears out, through active listening I've got the recording well established within my own head - a mental "recording", if that makes any sense.
Last edited:
Hey, them's fightin' words! Actually, I can argue either side of this and have. The truth is somewhere in the middle and it really depends on what you're going for. I have some good new vinyl, but I have a lot of old LPs, many of which came out of bargain bins. With a good system and a good listening environment, most of them sound very nice. Early CDs didn't sound good. They were quiet and didn't tend to skip or scratch as easily as records, but they really didn't sound very good if you A/B compare them. They have gotten better and there are some new formats that are supposedly best of all, but they require different equipment and starting over with your collection and I predict those platforms never take off for those reasons. Streaming is the current and next wave.
Years ago I was in a used record store and they had two used Herbie Hancock CDs, same record. One was a few dollars more because it was the Rudy Van Gelder edition! I took them both to the listening station to scoff at why people would pay more for marketing and even with their little listening station headphones it wasn't even close how much better the RVG version was. The first 10-15 years of CDs coming out, they weren't mastered right and just generally didn't sound very good. Kind of like early digital cameras compared to film.
First pressings of Blue Note Records can sound luscious, as can some of their new reissues. But, Blue Note records have been pressed and reissued a dozen times since the 60s. Some of them were good audio quality and some were garbage. Impulse! and Contemporary originals are wonderful. There are a series of Contemporary reissues that were cloned from the CD masters, rather than the original LP masters and they don't sound anywhere close to the originals. Original Verve pressings are almost always disappointing sonically. Part of the hobby is starting to recognize which is which.
A drummer I'm playing with is restoring his dad's vintage system and I've been helping him. He said "but, new records are like $40, right?" I replied "they can be, but I just bought something for $8 out of a bin that I can't stop listening to and it was never released on CD", so that's the joy. That's the chase. I might even listen to that record tonight, since I brought it up.
I will say that I am finally taking streaming seriously. I've been a casual Pandora listener for a few years and its good for some things, but no substitute for spinning a good LP. Spotify and Tidal are offering higher fidelity streaming and there are albums that I feel like I can definitely skip owning for, because I can play them in original song order from the service. Assuming that whatever you are streaming from goes through a good DAC and into a good system, I'm enjoying it either as a substitute for commercial radio or a way to check out songs or bands that I want to hear or learn something from. But, it doesn't make me regret having LPs and CDs. More music and better quality listening makes me happier and supports me better as a musician, 100%.
True dat! There is no reason for people to get into this that aren't drawn to it. It can be argued, though that there is no reason to play doublebass unless you're in an orchestra, because BG is so much easier to play and amplify, less fragile, easier to move around, and more stable. You can argue and people have that there is no reason to play either because it can be done or a piano or synth. Those arguments wouldn't persuade anyone here, though, anymore than your listening arguments would flip an audiophile or mid-fi enthusiast like me.
Was thinking about this conversation last night when I got home and dropped the needle on The Poll Winners and sat there with what felt like Barney Kessel in one corner of my basement and Ray Brown in the other.
I had NO regrets about putting a system together and owning records.
I had NO regrets about putting a system together and owning records.
FYI Dolby NR is no longer available in new gear, at least for cassette tape. Dolby stopped issuing licenses to manufacturers not long after Ray died. Tascam still makes some decks with "Dolby-like" circuits for playback only.
While I have hundreds of vinyl albums and about 1,000 CD’s, I now rarely use them. Why?
Over a year ago I bought a lifetime version of Roon. I also pay for the best-quality versions of Tidal and Qobuz which are auto-linked by Roon. I download high-res versions of virtually any album ever produced. I play them through high quality DACs and everything sounds fantastic.
When I learn or rediscover a band or musician, Roon helps me to find every other related album and load them into my collection with a few clicks.
A little expensive? Sure. I pay about $40.00 a month for both Tidal and Qobuz, and I paid about $500 one time for Roon. Far less than I have paid for audio gear in the past.
I still get to buy gear like Roon Ready DACs and Speakers. A whole-house solution.
And I have 1,500 full albums in my collection that grows every week
Highly recommended but YMMV
Over a year ago I bought a lifetime version of Roon. I also pay for the best-quality versions of Tidal and Qobuz which are auto-linked by Roon. I download high-res versions of virtually any album ever produced. I play them through high quality DACs and everything sounds fantastic.
When I learn or rediscover a band or musician, Roon helps me to find every other related album and load them into my collection with a few clicks.
A little expensive? Sure. I pay about $40.00 a month for both Tidal and Qobuz, and I paid about $500 one time for Roon. Far less than I have paid for audio gear in the past.
I still get to buy gear like Roon Ready DACs and Speakers. A whole-house solution.
And I have 1,500 full albums in my collection that grows every week
Highly recommended but YMMV
Golly, that Roon Labs business sounds incredible! I can absolutely see myself getting into that one day, but right now “if it ain’t broke…” … but dang (!) I wanna try it. Spotify’s interface is terrible, imho.
IMHO, there's something to be said for the investment you make when you buy actual physical media. You have paid for that album, CD, or cassette. It's going to take up a certain amount of room in your house. Once you buy it, you're going to spend some time with it. If you don't like a particular track, you'll give it another try. The tracks you do like, you'll listen to again and again. You get to a point where you are intimately familiar with the album, and physical media is more conducive to that; again IMO, IME.
For me, streaming shortens my attention span. If a tune doesn't immediately grab me, it's immediately on to the next track or even the next "album."
There are some great things about streaming--25 years ago, I couldn't have dreamed of having hundreds of thousands of albums just a click or two away without ever having to flip a side. But I'm not about to leave physical media anytime soon.
For me, streaming shortens my attention span. If a tune doesn't immediately grab me, it's immediately on to the next track or even the next "album."
There are some great things about streaming--25 years ago, I couldn't have dreamed of having hundreds of thousands of albums just a click or two away without ever having to flip a side. But I'm not about to leave physical media anytime soon.
Latest posts
-
-
Do stainless steel strings loose there sound quicker than other material- Latest: groovaholic
-
-
-
