Double Bass Audiophile Turntable Recommendations for a Reasonable Price?

[Don Kasper]

Wow...(and Flutter!)
Who is the Patron Saint of Turntables?
This guy might know - "DJ F'rancx"
Pope caught on camera making unannounced stop at Rome record store

 

[restomod]

Been following this thread as the audiophile bug has bitten me pretty bad lately. Just bought this Pioneer SX-3600 receiver and then a little bit later the Technics SL-B10 turntable with an upgraded cartridge. Same shop, completely serviced, everything works perfect. I feel it was super fair pricing and he has thousands of records so I will be back all the time. Running it through Bose 2.2 bookshelf speakers.

 

[TroyK]

Nice! That era of Pioneer is well regarded.

Make sure your turntable is perfectly level and I would be concerned about heat and vibrations off of the receiver too. It's basically an active pickup.

 

[restomod]

Nice! That era of Pioneer is well regarded.

Make sure your turntable is perfectly level and I would be concerned about heat and vibrations off of the receiver too. It's basically an active pickup.

Thanks Troy for the tips! This is only temporary to just test it out, looking for a stand locally to house both plus some records asap. The 3600 is the low end as its 30w a side, not super powerful for the day but in my office with a set of Bose 2.2's it's pretty nuts cranked.

I am spinning the 25th anniversary re-release of the STP Purple album. Pretty cool to listen to my idol Robert Deleo through this setup on vinyl.

 

[CryingBass]

TB.gas should be getting the economy-stimulus-kudos that it well deserves!

Good thing I am covered in this area ( hifi gear ).

 

[TroyK]

Thanks Troy for the tips! This is only temporary to just test it out, looking for a stand locally to house both plus some records asap. The 3600 is the low end as its 30w a side, not super powerful for the day but in my office with a set of Bose 2.2's it's pretty nuts cranked.

I am spinning the 25th anniversary re-release of the STP Purple album. Pretty cool to listen to my idol Robert Deleo through this setup on vinyl.

Enjoy the vinyl bliss!

 

[Keith Rawlings]

Ok. I’ve purchased a nice, well-kept Technics SLQ2 turntable for $125 and I’m very excited. It has a generic Pioneer cartridge on it right now and I’m looking to upgrade it. Any thoughts on a great headshell/cartridge combination? The tone arm height isn’t adjustable so I’m wondering how that might affect changing out the cartridge.

 

[TroyK]

Congrats!

Chosing a cartridge is like chosing a religion, so let me tell you what I think!

First, replacing the stylus in the OEM cartridge should be a consideration. Check vinylengine, lpgear, or worldwide stereo.

Audio Technica makes great carts and they'll range from cheap to shocking. Do some reading and pick your price point. Is it worth it to spend more? Yes.

Personally, I like Grado. Made in Brooklyn. They sound warmer than many, perhaps at some small expense of detail. Pick your price point in the prestige range. I had a Blue on my last turntable and was really happy with it, very musical. They sometimes hum, but there is a database that lists which tables they're known to hum on and yours is not an on it. The one that I had it in was, but if it hummed, I never noticed it or it never bothered me.

Ortofon, by reputation is the opposite. Clinical, almost like a CD, but tons of detail.

Two big brands that I don't have experience with are GoldRing and Nagaoka, but they have good reputations.

There are others. All of these recommendations are moving magnet carts. I don't think you'll be considering moving coil carts. They require different preamps and whatever you're running this through is much more likely to be MM.

What are you running it through, by the way?

You'll need to set it up too. It's not difficult, but you'll want to make sure to get it just right.

You can print out a protractor if you search on-line for one and you'll want a tracking weight scale. $10 or so on Amazon or wherever you order your cart from.

 

[BassFalcon]

I was trying to keep my budget around $500-$800 for now, but that appears to be impossible.

Pro-ject has some great ones in your price range. Got one recently and it’s phenomenal. Although I’m not a true audiophile. I use it with two Bose Bluetooth speakers. The real audiophiles are probably barfing after reading that, but I’m very very happy with my setup. Ive been able to hear things in my favorite 90’s David Bowie albums I’ve listened to thousands of times on other formats that I never knew existed. I don’t wanna be an audiophile, I didn’t want to turn it into a hobby or a lifestyle or personality, I just wanted to enjoy my vinyl records and the Pro-ject lets me do that in what I consider a high quality, although some may disagree.

edit: just saw you got a technics. Congrats! I hope it works well for you. As for cartridges and supplies and things, I really like Turntable Lab. They have been very helpful and informative for me.

 

[brianrost]

Any thoughts on a great headshell/cartridge combination? The tone arm height isn’t adjustable so I’m wondering how that might affect changing out the cartridge.

No need for a different headshell. That shell is like what was found on non-audiophile grade tables for decades and manufacturers designed their cartridges around it.

When new most tables shipped with a little jig for setting the proper location for the stylus. I've never owned a table that allowed adjusting the tonearm height...that must be above my pay grade.

 

[Aragorn35016]

if your patient you can find some great old high quality stuff for not alot of money. Bought most of my rig a couple of years back, for less than the price of a boom box. It helps that I’m an engineering tech by trade so any servicing I can do myself (which so far I’ve had to do very little of).
All found on my local Craigslist and yard sale:
$150 for the pioneer SX-3800
$100 for the PL-515, still had the original box and advertisement display from the store window.
$10 for the Cerwin Vega D-9’s needed new surrounds, cost 30 bucks.
Not shown is the Pickering XV-15 I found on a thrift store record player for 5 bucks.

Edit: not sure if this is still the case as I put all this together around 6 years ago, but at that time pioneer still sold parts factory direct for the SX series receivers. That’s pretty incredible to have support for technology that’s that old.

 

[Keith Rawlings]

Congrats!

Chosing a cartridge is like chosing a religion, so let me tell you what I think!

First, replacing the stylus in the OEM cartridge should be a consideration. Check vinylengine, lpgear, or worldwide stereo.

Audio Technica makes great carts and they'll range from cheap to shocking. Do some reading and pick your price point. Is it worth it to spend more? Yes.

Personally, I like Grado. Made in Brooklyn. They sound warmer than many, perhaps at some small expense of detail. Pick your price point in the prestige range. I had a Blue on my last turntable and was really happy with it, very musical. They sometimes hum, but there is a database that lists which tables they're known to hum on and yours is not an on it. The one that I had it in was, but if it hummed, I never noticed it or it never bothered me.

Ortofon, by reputation is the opposite. Clinical, almost like a CD, but tons of detail.

Two big brands that I don't have experience with are GoldRing and Nagaoka, but they have good reputations.

There are others. All of these recommendations are moving magnet carts. I don't think you'll be considering moving coil carts. They require different preamps and whatever you're running this through is much more likely to be MM.

What are you running it through, by the way?

You'll need to set it up too. It's not difficult, but you'll want to make sure to get it just right.

You can print out a protractor if you search on-line for one and you'll want a tracking weight scale. $10 or so on Amazon or wherever you order your cart from.

For now I’m running it through an old Pioneer stereo receiver, but it’s got a noisy volume control so I’m going to get something else instead of that. I’m using passive speakers so it’s going to have to be something with volume controls. My speaker is a new stock Acostech Labs KA-900, which were made for Kenwood stereo units back then. I love how it sounds with my Jazz and Classic Rock albums.

There are so many cartridge/headshell options! I went on Audio Trechnica’s website, as well as some of the others you mentioned and it’s overwhelming. How am I going to settle on one when I can’t really try them out first?

 

[Keith Rawlings]

View attachment 4619404

if your patient you can find some great old high quality stuff for not alot of money. Bought most of my rig a couple of years back, for less than the price of a boom box. It helps that I’m an engineering tech by trade so any servicing I can do myself (which so far I’ve had to do very little of).
All found on my local Craigslist and yard sale:
$150 for the pioneer SX-3800
$100 for the PL-515, still had the original box and advertisement display from the store window.
$10 for the Cerwin Vega D-9’s needed new surrounds, cost 30 bucks.
Not shown is the Pickering XV-15 I found on a thrift store record player for 5 bucks.

Edit: not sure if this is still the case as I put all this together around 6 years ago, but at that time pioneer still sold parts factory direct for the SX series receivers. That’s pretty incredible to have support for technology that’s that old.

That is very cool that you were able to find all that stuff second hand and that Pioneer still has parts for them. The receiver I’m using now isn’t very good IMO and it’s noisy, but it’s from the 90s and very basic. I would love a nice retro receiver but I just can’t seem to find one. Every place in my city — including Goodwill — thinks they’re sitting on a goldmine because of the internet and things are priced as such.

 

[TroyK]

Deoxit might fix your noisy controls.

How do you chose? Price point. Read a few reviews, and then pick your price point. OR, replace the stylus in the OEM cart and defer the issue until you're not hearing what you would like to be.

Whatever amp you are using will impose a signature sound on your whole system. That's a big decision in my mind.

 

[TroyK]

The battle cry used to be "SPEAKERS FIRST!".

It seems that there's been a shift toward focusing on the source pieces first (turntable, CD Player, DAC) and I think that makes sense.

I had a former TalkBass member help and advise me (which is why I am called to be helpful if I can) and I demo'ed a bunch of stuff. We're fortunate to have a good, small, local hifi shop with an excellent repair bench and used room. I had a $99 AudioTechnica turntable at the time, but wanted a receiver and was ready for a step up with the record player. My friend has that AT turntable now and is 100% happy with it. My experience was that almost nothing sounded like I expected it to.

I really wanted a 70s Marantz (and sort of still do), but I realized that only a few of those models were truly great and to find one of them in good condition can be very costly. There were several other things that I thought I wanted. A friend's dad had a Denon growing up and a well regarded one showed up in their used room that way underwhelmed me. When I heard the 80s NAD that I ultimately owned for 15 years I was home. No second thoughts and until it became unreliable, I had a deep love affair with it. I went through the same process last year with similar results. New Marantz stuff was getting amazing press and I had a chance to sit and listen to it, but it had none of the warmth and musicality that my NAD did. Rega and Audiolabs were contenders, but I wasn't completely sold on them and there was this used Creek for less than 1/2 the price of those units new and it sounded better to me. When I A/Bed it to my NAD before I traded it toward my turntable upgrade, I thought it sounded ~10-15% better, not enough to warrant switching, but I didn't trust the old unit anymore.

The Creek didn't have a phono stage installed, so they loaned me a simple Pro-ject stage, which I resented needing, but when I ran into the NAD with it I realized that the internal stage on my NAD, which I always thought was very good was not even close to the cheap external one. I bought a used Rega stage from the same place, it is the highest rated one under $500, but I didn't like it better. Creek sent me the internal card for my amp and it sounds at least as good. The Rega is on ebay right now.

My 15-years ago turntable purchase went the same way. I was told that I would love a Pro-ject or Rega P1, but that I should look for a vintage Thorans. The Pro-ject didn't feel like an upgrade to my AT and the P1 was spinning at some speed other than 33 1/3, all those years of pitch training made that untenable. The dream Thorans showed up and it was good, but fiddly and then there was this '70s Philips 212 that I thought sounded very similar for ~$200 and that was my turntable until a few months ago. I was happy, in love in fact, with my pieced together vintage, budget system. But, lots of plastic on it and after thousands of hours of use by me, it was beyond practical repair.

EDIT: When my Philips turntable failed during quarantine, a used Rega P3 showed up and it absolutely blew me away. I had saved money for a Yamahiko pickup, but reallocated it to a turntable.

For speakers, the aforementioned TB member used an industry contact to get me a pro-deal on Klipsch RB-81s and I bought them sight unseen on his recommendation and have never looked back.

The point of all this is that my ears told me what no one else could. If you can't demo things, I might consider either buy a cart at your pricepoint that sounds like what you would like. I recommended a Grado prestige and stand by that, but nothing mentioned is going to be a mistake. If you have speakers and a receiver, clean them up and start there. Maybe replace your speaker wire. If you're not liking what you hear, buy a good, external phono stage at ~$100 (not more) from someplace with a good return policy and see what that does or doesn't do for you. Then take your time on an amp and speakers. Your ears will tell you what you want to hear that you are missing and then reviews and recommendations will mean more to you and hopefully you'll get to hear a few things.

 

[garrett2]

Nice run through of some of the AT offerings by the great Herb Reichert Invalid Link Removed

For now I’m running it through an old Pioneer stereo receiver, but it’s got a noisy volume control so I’m going to get something else instead of that. I’m using passive speakers so it’s going to have to be something with volume controls. My speaker is a new stock Acostech Labs KA-900, which were made for Kenwood stereo units back then. I love how it sounds with my Jazz and Classic Rock albums.

There are so many cartridge/headshell options! I went on Audio Trechnica’s website, as well as some of the others you mentioned and it’s overwhelming. How am I going to settle on one when I can’t really try them out first?

View attachment 4619702 View attachment 4619703

 

[TroyK]

I've got an audiophile story (well...mid-file) that only my people here will get.

The speakers I use are Klipsch RB-81s. A forum member gave me a hookup on them 15 year or so ago. They have an 8" woofer, which is really unusual for bookshelf speakers this generation. They are good speakers, but not audiophile speakers. I heard some really good $2,000 speakers somewhere last year and it was kind of nagging at me. I've been watching our local shop's used room and something came through there that I wanted to try and so I have them home for the weekend. They are showing me what is missing in my Klipsch speakers, but at least initially, the weight and body of the bass was just gone. Obviously I can't live with that, but I have them for a few more days and they seem to be opening up, so we'll see.

But, here's the part I think you all might appreciate. What I realize about my Klipsch speakers is they sound like what it what it sounds like to play doublebass with a jazz group. You can feel it and you can hear it more or less, but it's not super-refined. Not like it is if you're listening from a good spot in the room. Sometimes, the pitch or articulation isn't clear. The other instruments are all present too, but you're not really listening to them there's this blanket of how the bass feels draped over everything. It's what it feels like to be on-stage in the middle of a set. I've never thought of it that way but there it is. That may be why I've enjoyed them all this time.

But, with the visiting speakers, while absent that bass presence, wow! Billy Higgin's snare drum! That's what a piano sounds like! Breaths between lyrics or tenor sax phrases. It's a whole new world...I just need 50% of the bass back.

If these speakers don't open up, obviously they have to go back, but I think I know what I am looking for now.

 

[Jim Dombrowski]

If you like the speakers, get a good sub (or two)

 

[TroyK]

If you like the speakers, get a good sub (or two)

Eh...maybe. I do like them, but I think I need to try a few others.

 

[Jim Dombrowski]

Also, what are the speakers you are trying out?