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Double Bass Auditioning two bows

FritzM

Supporting Member
Jun 21, 2001
974
976
Madison, MS
www.fritzmartin.net
So, I am trying out two new bows from String emporium. I'm having a tough time on a decision. I like them both for different reasons.

1. Dorfler 4 star German bow. $1800.00

This bow is very elegant and articulate and has great balance. The hair is white. The sound is well defined. My only complaint is it sounds a little whispy to me. This bow seems to pull a little more high end and really tight sounding low end. The hair seems to be brand new, maybe unplayed. Is that possibly a reason it is a little whispy sounding?

2. String Emporium German Bow. $775.00

I am in total shock how good this bow sounds for the money. It has less of a camber than the Dorfler and has mixed hair on it. It pulls more low end out of my bass and is overall darker sounding, but still very sweet.

I have been using a finale carbon bow. There is no comparison to the two bows I am now auditioning. The wood bows are better in every way, to me.

My question is for the more experienced arco players out there. Exactly what do you look for when choosing a new bow? I mean, the little details. These two bows are really close in my opinion. The spiccato is maybe a tad better on the in house bow. But the staccato is a tad quicker and clearer on the Dorlfer. Sorry for all of the questions, but the price difference is substantial.
 
You're bound to get some very insightful comments by folks much more knowledgeable than me, but I'll chime my primary criteria to get the ball rolling: Is the sound more pleasing to me with one bow versus the other? Does the bow speak well across all registers, high and low? Do I feel the bow is articulate? The last time I picked a bow, after playing 20 or so, it came down to two. I liked them bow a lot. One was very articulate and easily dramatic especially in TP but it was less defined and quiet in the low register. The other was more even across registers, speaking well both high and low but took more effort to create drama. I picked the more even bow because with a little more effort I can get the drama, but I couldn't get the first bow to command the low register. Hope that helps.
 
Thanks Tom. Actually I'm feeling the same thing. More drama and sweet TP with the Dorfler, but the String Emporium bow seems more even across the spectrum. But this is all very subtle and slight differences. Also, I do use cello rosin and I'm really not doing much section work. Another thing is re-sale value. Wow, a lot to consider.
 
I have experienced that the hair can make quite a difference. One afternoon, one of my teachers and I compared bows and basses, partially out of curiosity and partly because he was getting an unpleasantly scratchy sound with his bow. His bow had dark hair and once he had it re-haired with white hair much of the scratchiness went away. In the two bows I auditioned, the more dramatic bow had dark hair and the more even bow had white hair. Granted, it's a sample of... two, so take it with a grain of salt. Let's see what Mike Canada has to say about this. It's a tough decision unless you have unlimited funds.
 
Thanks Tom,

I have a few thoughts about the bow trial process, the first impression of these bows, and the difference a rehair can make. I am leaving this here as a personal reminder to edit and give my two cents later tonight. I have a Beethoven 5 rehearsal to get to though. Stay tuned!
 
I would say that you might need more information. Perhaps get more bows to try? I like where Tom said he started with 20 and ended up with 2.

Like Tom, I tried lots o' bows until I figured out what I like. My limited experience was that I checked out a ton of them, over a few years. I got such a clear sense of what I like, when I felt/saw it, I knew right away.

If it doesn't feel certain, I wouldn't buy it. I would also be candid with the seller; tell them you are "on the fence" and see if you can negotiate a little more trial time.

As far as the thought, "Its a tough decision unless you have unlimited funds" goes, I would say that almost anything is possible for any of us, IMHO. I spent nearly five years saving up my money for my new Lipkins bow. If I can do it, anyone can.

Another mind-blowing thing is that higher price may not always equal better quality or suitability in new bows. I played a $250 bow somebody got on Craigslist with a bit of cosmetic damage that I liked as much as some of the nicest bows I've played, for example.

Go figure. My vote; ask for more time with the two you have and get more bows to try...

Can you ask your teacher to check them out, or at least get another bassist to listen to and try them?
 
Last edited:
I am not sure if edits show up in the alerts people get, so I figured a new comment made sense.

When auditioning bows first and foremost you have to look at them as a player. I am a strong believer in getting your hands on as many bows as you possibly can within your limiting factor(s) which is usually cost, but geography and time can also be an issue and narrowing down from there. While developing your own understanding of preferences for certain characteristics in a bow, you have to have a few in your hands.

The fact that one of these bows isn't hands down winning makes me feel like you should keep looking. You have good things to say about both bows, but you also have reservations and in a perfect bow shopping scenario, one of them is going to stand out from all the rest as YOUR bow. That can happen in almost any price range and will be unique to each player and instrument. If you have access to some more bows you might find the one, and if not you will be developing a sense of what your preferences are to help narrow down your search. With that said, there are a few things that can be changed fairly easily for not an excessive amount of money and that can make a difference.

Hair: Even if it is never played hair gets dry and brittle and needs to be replaced every year or two. This can be responsible for wispy, and scratchy sounds or inarticulate attacks. Likewise if you prefer white or black hair and the bow has the opposite, certain assumptions can be made on what it will sound like with the opposite. This is a bit of a gamble, as some bows are slower to respond or scratchy sounding no matter what, and sometimes a new rehair in your preferred hair colour can make a world of difference. If I am auditioning a bow that is in need of a rehair, I try to remove as much of the rosin that is on the bow with a clean dry rag or new dry toothbrush, apply a moderate amount of my preferred rosin of choice, and play some whole note scales. I am listening for wobbly sounds that could indicated a flat spot/camber issues, (more on that in a second) if the bow sounds dramatically different across the range of the instrument, and if I like the sound. With that information, I can feel pretty confident I know what a new rehair is going to result in.

There has been a lot of good discussion here about the differences between black, white, and some of the other hair options, and a search should pull up some good reading.

Weight and Balance: This is one of the first things that turns people off a bow, and one of the easier things to adjust. While bass bows come in a variety of different weights and you are never going to have a 200 gram bow feel like it is 120, if a bow feels tip or frog heavy it is usually because of balance not weight. When a bow sounds great and has all of the other characteristics you like, talk to the bow maker or person helping you. Most shops will have some lead tape or something else heavy that you can use while trying the bow to give you a sense of what it would feel like with an adjusted balance point. That can be remedied by changing the winding about 85% of the time, 10% of the time something more dramatic like changing the tip to a heavier/lighter material or adding some lead into one of the mortises is needed, and maybe 5% of the time (usually on cheap factory bows) the balance is way too far out of whack that moving on to the next bow really is the best option.

Camber: Some bows have more camber in them than others. A lot of the time bow makers find a camber they like and each of their bows will be very similar to that, but sometimes the individual stick or the model of the bow dictates that more or less is necessary. There are fantastic and horrible bows on either end of the spectrum. Flat spots are worrisome, and can be difficult to see. Play some long tones and see if the bow skips or wavers. If that happens in the same spot every time, usually that indicates a flat spot. Also try starting the bow in both directions along the stick from frog to tip. It is most difficult to get and maintain enough camber right behind the head of the bow and under the winding in front of the frog, and if the bow does not start well in either place that could be why. You also want to have a look down the bow when it is at tension to make sure it isn't warped left of right.

For a variety of reasons a shop or maker might decline to alter the camber of a bow. Adjusting camber is one of the more dangerous repairs to do, but it can make a world of difference. I would stay away from a warped bow or a bow with a flat spot if the shop/maker will not fix it for you.

Previous/necessary repairs: This is more of a concern with pedigree/older bows, but worth mentioning. Good repairs are going to be challenging to spot, but can greatly alter the value of the bow. If you do see repairs ask if that shop/maker performed the repairs and see what they can tell you about them. A head spline, head/butt graft, or otherwise repaired broken stick loses the majority of its resale value. Other repairs such as a new tip or replaced pearl dots are far less significant provided they were done well. A bow in need of repairs is not a write off, but be aware of what that repair could mean down the road when you look to sell the bow.

Sound: Does it sound good from the top to the bottom of your bass? Is it balanced, or do certain registers pop out/die? Can you get a variety of different sounds out of it, or is it a one trick pony? What about dynamic range? There are tons of other questions to ask about sound. Some bows and instruments get along swimmingly, others really don't. I strongly suggest trying bows on your own bass for that reason. It might be the best bow for you and sound amazing on the bass at the shop, but that doesn't mean it agrees with your bass at home.

Wow, that ended up being a lot. To get back to the bows you are currently looking at, if the Dorfler is working well for you and you think a new rehair and potentially a different rosin choice is going to push it into "I have to own this bow" territory, then go for it. If not, I would suggest you broaden the search.
 
Thank you for all of the info! These are not the only bows I have tried. But, they have been the best sounding trial bows I have received. I live in Mississippi and getting a lot of trial bows can be costly. Actually, I fell in love with the Dorfler when I first played it. I just wanted to get other opinions to get an idea of what to look for. And, you guys are very helpful. It is very difficult to describe, but the Dorfler makes my 5 year old bass sound like a much older, seasoned bass. The shop bow was really nice, but it seemed to lack focus in the low register. I feel like that is why I perceived it brought out more low end. When I played them yesterday, the difference became more apparent. I think that the fact I am using cello rosin, it is very cold here, and the hair looks to be unplayed, is the reason the Dorfler sounded a bit whispy at first. I didn't get that feeling yesterday.
After all, I am a Jazz player transitioning back into arco work from my college days. I hope these kinds of posts can help others in their bow search and provide the kind of knowledgable advice that this forum offers.

Thanks Again, Fritz Martin
 
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