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Avatar b210...no mids?

jumblemind

jumblemind

I also answer to Bryan
Aug 27, 2011
2,981
1,293
Knoxville
#1
Tried my new Avatar B210 neo at practice last night with a GK MB200. Crazy low end for a 210 cab, but the mids just weren't there. E string was filling the room, but my bassline just disappeared when I moved up to the other strings. I know that GK has a natural scoop, but I was A/B'ing with an Ampeg 210AV, and all frequencies were in the band mix with that cab.

Is this just a bad amp/cab matchup? I have an LMTube on the way, so maybe that will match better. This rig will be for a mostly 80s/90s cover band (with two guitars and drums) that plays the usual bars/weddings/private parties.
 
#3
I didn't consider the room would have that much impact, but i guess it does stand to science that it will sound very different in a bar or reception hall than in our small practice space. Just doesn't seem like it should be that drastic, which is why it may be a voicing issue...and I don't want to admit that my 4th cabinet in two months is still not a match for my needs. Also don't want to find out again in a gig situation that my sound is way off, which is unfortunately the only real test.
 
#4
+1 on room placement. I have a B410 Neo and I tend to get the opposite effect in my practice space....lows are not really there but mids are really punchy. Apparently my neighbors are getting all my lows. When I gig with this rig it has a much more even, flat sound from lows to mids. Experiment with your amp settings and room placement...that is a good cab.
 
#5
The avatar neo drivers have a HUGE dip in the upper mids that makes them dissapear in the mix. I e-mailed Dave suggesting that they try stock 2510 drivers but, he politely brushed me off by saying that nobody else has ever said this before and that everyone prefered the avatar drivers. Pretty much the opposite of what gets said on here. Nice guy though.
 
#6
They must have changed drivers or something, mine cuts like a dang knife...even better than my 2x15's does. I received the ones with eminence drivers though, so I haven't even heard of the avatar drivers that Kringle77 is referring to. Out of all the gear I've considered selling over the years, never once thought about losing the Avatar cabinet.
 
#7
The oem neo drivers made by eminence for avatar have a huge dip centered around 2khz. BFM has a chart posted up of the b410. You will see what I mean. I've compared that driver directly next to the stock 2510 and there is a VERY big difference that anyone can hear. If you can't, just ignore me and continue being happy with your cab. Thats cool.
 
#9
kringle77 said:
The oem neo drivers made by eminence for avatar have a huge dip centered around 2khz. BFM has a chart posted up of the b410. You will see what I mean. I've compared that driver directly next to the stock 2510 and there is a VERY big difference that anyone can hear. If you can't, just ignore me and continue being happy with your cab. Thats cool.
Click to expand...

I wasn't contesting your findings, just confused about the drivers. The bass I used with it most often was a Warwick active Corvette (strung with DR hi beams) and a I use Carvin BX500 w/ a VT bass deluxe. I'm not shy with my mids and my gear usually isn't shy either by default...probably has something to do with it.
 
#11
jumblemind said:
Interesting, because I was considering trying a BX500 with this cab. Had a really great deal on the LMTube, so I'm trying that next. It's entirely possible the GK signature is a big factor.
Click to expand...

BX500 is a good amp, it can be VERY transparent but needs the tube preamp turned on if you want some coloration. A bass with lackluster electronics can be rather evident with it on certain settings. TONS of power though, it gets stupid loud before you even get to 50% on master volume.
 
#13
I hear the same thing comparing my 12" Avatar deltalites to my stock spec Eminence ones. The Avatars run a little deeper, but lack upper mids by comparison, and their upper peak comes in lower in frequency whsre it's a little harsher on the ears. The Avatars are 4ohms though. They'll be going in a bass cab to carry the lows under a 6" and end up with an 8ohm 1212/6 and the Emi's will be going in PA tops due to their better upper response. To my ear, the Emi's sound better on bass running fullrange on their own.


At the OP. it likely is some room interactions as well. Try positioning your spealer in different areas of the room relative to the walls and/or angle it up towards your ears a little.
 
#14
I have a B210 with the eminence drivers and feel there is a huge lack of upper mids. Nice huge low end for a 210 but it flat disappears in a mix. I used it with the GK MB200 and had to dime both mid controls to get a better sound. The cab worked much better with my Mesa M6
 
#16
I really liked my Neo 212 from Avatar, but I've since moved to playing Mesa gear.

I never really had the issue of not being heard at practice and at the time I was running it with a Peavey tour 700 pushing 500 watts at 8 ohms. Was a killer first stack, and I don't plan on getting rid of it anytime soon.
 
#17
VanillaThundah said:
I wasn't contesting your findings, just confused about the drivers. The bass I used with it most often was a Warwick active Corvette (strung with DR hi beams) and a I use Carvin BX500 w/ a VT bass deluxe. I'm not shy with my mids and my gear usually isn't shy either by default...probably has something to do with it.
Click to expand...

Probably true. I've read that the Carvin Bx500 sounds "transparent" - as if something is wrong with that, but one thing about that amp is that it is very mid focused. Probably one of the reasons that people say it is so loud, and it can definitely get loud. But mid-focused and transparent are words that also say clarity (as in you can hear your notes), regardless of the cab. I've run my Bx500 over my Avatar B210pro cab and my GK MBE212 (I got that cab specifically because of the Bx500). The 2x10 sounds thin compared to the 2x12. There are variables that some of us hear and some of us don't. Depends on what you want to hear because we all seem to have an opinion. Variables are endless.
 
#18
jumblemind said:
Tried my new Avatar B210 neo at practice last night with a GK MB200. Crazy low end for a 210 cab, but the mids just weren't there. E string was filling the room, but my bassline just disappeared when I moved up to the other strings. I know that GK has a natural scoop, but I was A/B'ing with an Ampeg 210AV, and all frequencies were in the band mix with that cab.
Click to expand...



I guess this is where it's "different strokes for different folks" time.

I auditioned Ampeg 210AV cabinets and couldn't get enough cut or volume (to my ears), but my two 210 Neo Avatar cabinets set just perfect in our mix. Again, (to my ears).

My Avatars are driven with either a G.K. MB2-500 head or a Ampeg PF-500 head.
With the G.K. I'll run the mids at 12:00 or alittle under, bass at 11:00 to 11:30 depending on the room.
With the PF, mids at 11:00 to 12:00, freq select at 1 or 2, bass at 1:00 to 1:30 depending on the room.

Plenty of mids and definition for a sloppy player such as I.....:D
 
#19
Haven't had any problems with frequency response with my Avatar 4x10 with Neo's. Running an RH450 into it and it pretty much does whatever the hell I tell it to do, and generally does it fairly well.

It definitely puts out waaay more low end than when I was using a Tubeworks head and 4x10, so I can see getting the impression that it lacks mids in that context, but that's sort of an apples and oranges comparison because it was also a different head, and also since I'm using a 4x10 avatar and the OP's question was regarding a 2x10... But hopefully something out of this was useful.
 
#20
I had an Avatar 1-12 (ceramic mag driver but I'm not sure what kind). It was all boom and no punch. It was tuned very muddy to me. I couldn't get any clarity out of it no matter what I tried. At the time I owned a GB Shuttle 6.0, Mesa Walkabout, and a few tube heads. And my main bass (Fender Roscoe Beck Sig V) is pretty bright. I just never could figure that cab out. The only thing that sounded any good through it was my old Fender PA100 head with the RBV on the neck pickup in single. But it was a one-trick pony with that setup. If I were playing Motown all night it would have been perfect.
 

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