Avatar SB112 as alternative to 210

[InnerLoop]

Hi, I'm a long time user of an Avatar 210 cabinet I got back around 2005 I think. Something has started to rattle around the back plate so I need to open it up and try to fix it now that gigs are starting back. But really i need something a little smaller and lighter too, so I've found myself considering an 8ohm Avatar SB112 possibly with the Deltalite2 speaker since I am assuming that would be lighter and according to the website it has an improved low end. I play double bass in addition to electric bass and am considering a 5 string as my next electric bass purchase since I'm finding myself playing pop and R&B tunes in some situations which requires that low B. I have a great 1×15 EV speaker in an old school Fender cab but its a beast to carry and I onlybtakevit out when I need the extra power and have help lugging it. It wouldn't even fit in my last car lol.

Anyway, I gig a lot as it's my living but many of my gigs are smaller bars and clubs, not to mention the fact that lugging the 2x10 around to jazz gigs with the upright is not only a pain but a little absurd. I'd probably get a 1x10 Trace Eliot or something small like that if it was just the upright I needed a cab for but I need to have something I can use on electric gigs that require a little more power and better sound than that. On my large venue and festival gigs they always have great backline so I don't need a big amp at the moment. Just something that sounds good and tight and doesn't kill my back. The 2×10 is hard to carry because of the way it's shaped and it's just a little too big for many of my gigs. I figure I could couple the 112 with the 210 when I need more power.

I am currently using an Ampeg Portaflex PF-500 as both my Mark Bass Little Mark 250 and Mesa Boogie Walkabout scout amp heads are out of commission. Many of the gigs are going to be outdoor patio type gigs for now due to pandemic conditions so that is a consideration. I feel like I need feedback before i make a decision because its been a while since i used a 1×12 and also since i am uncertain about whether to go with the Delta LF or Deltalite. It seems from what I have read that the Deltalite is less watts. Should this dissuade me? Thanks for helping me out in my indecision.

 

[musicman556]

Have you thought about a Mesa Subway 112? Sweetwater has them in stock right now. They aren't the absolute lightest 112s on the market at 32 lbs, but is lighter and more compact than the Avatar. The neo loaded avatar has a 250w rating, I believe.

The Subway 112 has a real 400w power handling rating and great tone that gives up nothing to be small and light. It ain't cheap, but it is WORTH IT. If there's any way you can swing the cost, I believe your back and ears will thank you!

I'm just recovering from back surgery last month, myself. I am SO GLAD that I went with Subway cabs (115 and 210) last year! I didn't buy them for the lightweight properties originally, but now I'm so happy I have them. I can already move these cabs around as I need. If I was still fighting my 90+ Ampeg 410, it would be months and months more until I could move that thing at all!

 

[shoot-r]

Since you have and are familiar with the Avatar sound, I think the SB112 would be a great choice of cab to add to your collection.

FYI: I've been gigging with two Avatar 210 Neo cabinets stacked as a vertical 410 since 2008 (and recently have been using just one 210 at our jobs.)
I'm a big Avatar fan.

 

[InnerLoop]

Thanks I will definitely check this out. I was definitely happy using my Mesa Boogie Walkabout Scout for gigs for a long time until it crapped out. I've always been a Mesa Boogie fan in general. I may just wait and save my money for something like the subway and try to make due with the 210 I already have if I can get rid of this stinking rattle in the back. Lighter and more power is definitely a big bonus.

Thanks for the heads up because it's been awhile since I've shop for a cabinet and I found it a little daunting trying to sort through everything that's out there since I am a bit picky. This might be better too because hopefully one of my local shops will actually have one in stock that I can try which is a big downside to the Avatar, not being able to try it out first

 

[FunkHead]

A 1x12 will not hang with a 2x10. Maybe a Barefaced. But not many others. The Avatar B210 is an amazing cab. It will keep up with a loud drummer. So will an Avatar B15 but that’s a bigger cab.
Edit: I am speaking of 4 Ohm Neo loaded Avatar cabs.

 

[bgavin]

...But really i need something a little smaller and lighter too...
..I'm finding myself playing pop and R&B tunes in some situations which requires that low B...
...Just something that sounds good and tight and doesn't kill my back.
...It seems from what I have read that the Deltalite is less watts.

You have a herd of conflicting requirements.
The kicker is throwing in the requirement for low B.
Your situation appears to gain the most benefit from several cabs, each suited to a purpose.

A 1x10 is small, light, easy to carry for intimate venues.
Two of them can be stacked and are easier to carry.

Low B at any appreciable loudness level is not going to come from a small, light weight cab.
Loading into an automobile is more troublesome than loading into a truck or van.

At my age, I much prefer more trips to the vehicle with smaller/lighter pieces, than fewer larger/heavier pieces.

I am a firm believer in separates where you bring only what you need.
My situation is both low B and keyboards... full range.
Many of my past gigs were street gigs at live band loudness levels.
I usually bi-amp which allows interchanging large bass horns or small subs and various top boxes, as needed.
We used to joke about playing the music for free, but getting paid to move the equipment.

I recently bought the Avatar SB126 (12+6) to use with a 700RB-II amp.
This is "old school" construction, and fairly bulky and heavy.
I specifically chose the Delta 12LF, because it is a commercial off the shelf driver, and easily replaceable. The Avatar Deltalite is OEM proprietary.

 

[InnerLoop]

A 1x12 will not hang with a 2x10. Maybe a Barefaced. But not many others. The Avatar B210 is an amazing cab. It will keep up with a loud drummer. So will an Avatar B15 but that’s a bigger cab.
Edit: I am speaking of 4 Ohm Neo loaded Avatar cabs.

When you say it won't hang, do you mean by itself or do you mean it won't pair well with the B210? For the Low B gigs I'd probably be using my 1×15 in combination with the 1×12 or the 2×10 ( I forgot to mention I also have an 18" sub for my full on electronic shows which I also do. It's a monster to move but I always have a crew to help me on those dates). After looking into it I'm now leaning heavily towards the Mesa Subway 112 because several shops around here actually carry it and I just got confirmation on some nice festival dates that would pay for it. I figure the smaller 112 would give me the flexibility to mix and match when needed. I'm also thinking about getting the Mesa Subway amp head now that I've been looking at the Mesa gear lol.... and my local shops carry it as well.

 

[FunkHead]

When you say it won't hang, do you mean by itself or do you mean it won't pair well with the B210? For the Low B gigs I'd probably be using my 1×15 in combination with the 1×12 or the 2×10. After looking into it I'm now leaning heavily towards the Mesa Subway 112 because several shops around here actually carry it and I just got confirmation on some nice festival dates that would pay for it. I figure the smaller 112 would give me the flexibility to mix and match when needed. I'm also thinking about getting the Mesa Subway amp head now that I've been looking at the Mesa gear lol.... and my local shops carry it as well.

I meant as a replacement for the B210. Also, a 15 is a better match to a 210 if you were to stack….

 

[Tim Grant]

I have had a 4 ohm SB112 with the neo driver since 2008. I do similar gigs as what you are talking about (upright and 5 string electric). It handles both very well. I have a second sb112 for larger venues. I run it through an Acoustic Image Clarus which does 500 watts at 2 ohms. My second amp is a GK mb200 with a pair of GK Neo 112's. Comparing the two rigs the GK cabs are slightly smaller and lighter but the Avatars have a fatter low end. Both are great cabs just voiced differently.

 

[arbiterusa]

Given it’s the same money and slightly less weight, I’d get a Rumble 210 extension cab instead.

 

[musicman556]

Just a couple more thoughts... I see some "12s don't sound like..." and "15s are better..." type of comments shared further up. These types of generalizations simply have no basis when talking about Mesa Subway cabs. Until you have played them, I just don't think someone can quite understand how different they are. All conventional "10s are faster, 15s are deeper/not as articulate" wisdom is useless here, tbh.

From my personal experience with the Rumble 210 cab, I don't echo the recommendation. Especially since gigging is your income, OP, I would absolutely go up in quality, not down.

Also, have you already gotten rid of the Walkabout? Our very own Agedhorse is a Mesa engineer and can absolutely get you in touch with the right folks for a repair if that's something you'd entertain. Good luck!

 

[InnerLoop]

Thanks for all the input everybody. I'm planning on hitting one of the shops and testing out the Mesa Boogie 112 with my current amp head. After reading about how much people love them I have a feeling it's the way I'm going to go but we'll see. I definitely have not gotten rid of the Walkabout Scout. I planned on getting it fixed for a while but other expenses keep coming up. I definitely plan on keeping it and eventually getting it repaired though. It got pretty banged up on one tour because our band leader was a jerk of a driver and sent it flying to the back of the trailer. I'm not expecting it to be a big repair though.

 

[Bruiser Stone]

I really like my SB112 with a 4 ohm LF driver with a 400 watt head. Lots of low end on tap, not the lightest but light enough, and I bought mine for under $250. I’m very satisfied.

 

[jeff7bass]

My SB-112 is great. Plenty loud for rehearsals and gigs. It's full sounding, more like a 115. I pushed my 8 ohm cab with a 450W head, so like 280 watts? Does the job.

 

[Rip Van Dan]

Hi, I'm a long time user of an Avatar 210 cabinet I got back around 2005 I think. Something has started to rattle around the back plate so I need to open it up and try to fix it now that gigs are starting back. But really i need something a little smaller and lighter too, so I've found myself considering an 8ohm Avatar SB112 possibly with the Deltalite2 speaker since I am assuming that would be lighter and according to the website it has an improved low end. I play double bass in addition to electric bass and am considering a 5 string as my next electric bass purchase since I'm finding myself playing pop and R&B tunes in some situations which requires that low B. I have a great 1×15 EV speaker in an old school Fender cab but its a beast to carry and I onlybtakevit out when I need the extra power and have help lugging it. It wouldn't even fit in my last car lol.

Anyway, I gig a lot as it's my living but many of my gigs are smaller bars and clubs, not to mention the fact that lugging the 2x10 around to jazz gigs with the upright is not only a pain but a little absurd. I'd probably get a 1x10 Trace Eliot or something small like that if it was just the upright I needed a cab for but I need to have something I can use on electric gigs that require a little more power and better sound than that. On my large venue and festival gigs they always have great backline so I don't need a big amp at the moment. Just something that sounds good and tight and doesn't kill my back. The 2×10 is hard to carry because of the way it's shaped and it's just a little too big for many of my gigs. I figure I could couple the 112 with the 210 when I need more power.

I am currently using an Ampeg Portaflex PF-500 as both my Mark Bass Little Mark 250 and Mesa Boogie Walkabout scout amp heads are out of commission. Many of the gigs are going to be outdoor patio type gigs for now due to pandemic conditions so that is a consideration. I feel like I need feedback before i make a decision because its been a while since i used a 1×12 and also since i am uncertain about whether to go with the Delta LF or Deltalite. It seems from what I have read that the Deltalite is less watts. Should this dissuade me? Thanks for helping me out in my indecision.

If you really want a 112 cabinet that is both loud and also clear, I'd suggest you take a look at the DNS-112 cab by DNA. It handles 450-watts rms and has a max SPL of 129db (threshold of pain loud). Weight is 34-lbs. Has Neo speakers and top mounted handles on the side that allow you to pick it up with one hand if you're carrying your bass or amp in the other. One will handle small and medium-sized venues, though I'd suggest getting a second one for a two x 112 set up for large venues, outdoors, and Festivals. Sound quality is really clear and if you ever bow your upright, it can handle that just fine too.

I have the DNS-210 and DNS-410, and they are crazy loud, full, articulate and loud cabinets. The DNS-112 is usually over $829 new but Bass Central has one right now that's new for $779 (also listed on Reverb). You can sometimes find a used one for sale but rarely any lower than $600. A friend of mine, Lane Baldwin (lanebaldwin.com) uses two of the on tour primarily playing large outdoor venues. When he was working at Eden with David, he typically used a WT800 and D610XLT on tour (sometimes two of each). They are definitely worth a look and listen.

I found the video where Roy Vogt is putting the DNS-112 through its paces. This was right before the cabs on that stage were released back in 2010 and he also played the 210 and 410 but that's not in this video. This one is only playing through the DNS-112. This is not a professional recording and the room is really live, but it's pretty interesting. Right about 2:38 he brings out an EUB and at about 3:08 he brings out the bow and uses the bow with it. I love his final comments on it.

 

[InnerLoop]

Sadly I just went down the rabbit hole of trying to figure out this sympathetic rattle/buzz that starts cropping up at the A string on my current avatar 210 and I think it's just the cabinet itself. I thought it was just the plate but took that off and realized it was then buzzing around the brace in the middle of the bottom opening. Stuffed shirts in there and thought it was better but realized it was buzzing on the front so I took off the screen. Still buzzing. All the screws are tight on the speakers and everything else. Laid it flat on the ground and sat on the cabinet while I played and seemed to be a little better. So I think it's the seams or something like that. Burned up too much time trying to sort it out and I've got 30 tunes to learn for tomorrow. Not looking forward to getting this screen back on either lol. I need a new cabinet asap.

 

[FunkHead]

Sadly I just went down the rabbit hole of trying to figure out this sympathetic rattle/buzz that starts cropping up at the A string on my current avatar 210 and I think it's just the cabinet itself. I thought it was just the plate but took that off and realized it was then buzzing around the brace in the middle of the bottom opening. Stuffed shirts in there and thought it was better but realized it was buzzing on the front so I took off the screen. Still buzzing. All the screws are tight on the speakers and everything else. Laid it flat on the ground and sat on the cabinet while I played and seemed to be a little better. So I think it's the seams or something like that. Burned up too much time trying to sort it out and I've got 30 tunes to learn for tomorrow. Not looking forward to getting this screen back on either lol. I need a new cabinet asap.

You could just run a screw or two right into the center divider of the bottom port right from the bottom side of cabinet.

 

[InnerLoop]

Thanks! I'll give that a try and see if it helps.

 

[spatters]

I am a big Avatar fan (the 4x10 in my avatar is, wait for it, an Avatar). Their cabinets sound great and are an amazing value.

However, they're not lightweight.
Your 2x10 probably weighs about 60 pounds.
If weight is a concern, you are better served shopping for something else.

The lightest reasonably priced cabinets out there are the Fender Rumbles.
A Rumble 2x10 weighs 40# and retails for $400.
Amusingly enough, the Rumble 500 and 800 combos are both 2x10 and weigh 38-39 pounds, less than the cabinet alone, so those might be worth trying.
This is the same weight as the Mesa Subway 1x12 (33#) plus your Ampeg PF-500.

Really you should go listen to the Rumble combos and the Mesa and see which you like better!

 

[MTN.bass72]

Hi, I'm a long time user of an Avatar 210 cabinet I got back around 2005 I think. Something has started to rattle around the back plate so I need to open it up and try to fix it now that gigs are starting back. But really i need something a little smaller and lighter too, so I've found myself considering an 8ohm Avatar SB112 possibly with the Deltalite2 speaker since I am assuming that would be lighter and according to the website it has an improved low end. I play double bass in addition to electric bass and am considering a 5 string as my next electric bass purchase since I'm finding myself playing pop and R&B tunes in some situations which requires that low B. I have a great 1×15 EV speaker in an old school Fender cab but its a beast to carry and I onlybtakevit out when I need the extra power and have help lugging it. It wouldn't even fit in my last car lol.

Anyway, I gig a lot as it's my living but many of my gigs are smaller bars and clubs, not to mention the fact that lugging the 2x10 around to jazz gigs with the upright is not only a pain but a little absurd. I'd probably get a 1x10 Trace Eliot or something small like that if it was just the upright I needed a cab for but I need to have something I can use on electric gigs that require a little more power and better sound than that. On my large venue and festival gigs they always have great backline so I don't need a big amp at the moment. Just something that sounds good and tight and doesn't kill my back. The 2×10 is hard to carry because of the way it's shaped and it's just a little too big for many of my gigs. I figure I could couple the 112 with the 210 when I need more power.

I am currently using an Ampeg Portaflex PF-500 as both my Mark Bass Little Mark 250 and Mesa Boogie Walkabout scout amp heads are out of commission. Many of the gigs are going to be outdoor patio type gigs for now due to pandemic conditions so that is a consideration. I feel like I need feedback before i make a decision because its been a while since i used a 1×12 and also since i am uncertain about whether to go with the Delta LF or Deltalite. It seems from what I have read that the Deltalite is less watts. Should this dissuade me? Thanks for helping me out in my indecision.

What's your budget?

If you can swing it, I'd suggest a Greenboy Audio Fearless F112...

It'll handle anything you throw at it double bass, or electric wise, with ease..
Pricey, yes, but you'll never need another cab.. buy once, cry once.
It'll make think .. Avatar what..???
Contact an authorized builder and tell them what you're going for. @popgadget (Paul)on here pops in from time to time.. he runs Scabbey Road. Great guy, and builder. He's built my F112, F110, and F210.
Can't hurt to talk