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Avatar SB112 or B210? help me decide!
- Thread starter elGuti
- Start date
yeah, note, I wasn't referring to 10" vs 12" in general, I was referring to the avatar-specific 2x10 vs the 1x12.
I took the leap of faith too. I picked up the B210 with ceramics, and a Genz Benz Shuttle 6.0. Customer service was excellent, although in my case it was always with (forgot his name now, Trevor maybe?).
As I recall, the neos were only available in 4 ohm, so expanding down the road wouldn't have been feasible without a different head.
So here's my thoughts. Initially I was completely loving the sound. And for the most part I still do. I got compliments after the gig I played with it. I was easily heard in a acoustically harsh room with a loudish drummer. But then I did some web-surfing about some other amps, hit on the Thunderfunk, and had the unfortunate idea planted in my head that solid-state had more "umph" than class D like the GB 6.0. I did some side by side listening against my old Peavyt TKO and I did indeed notice that there was a quality to the TKO that I liked and couldn't match with the GB/avatar rig. I'm not experienced enough to really describe it, but I just though the GB/Avatar sounded a bit hollow compared to the TKO, which had more "balls."
Not sure why. Is it the class D v. Solid state? 210 v. 115? So here I go trying to be helpful and I think I probably just made things more confusing...
As I recall, the neos were only available in 4 ohm, so expanding down the road wouldn't have been feasible without a different head.
So here's my thoughts. Initially I was completely loving the sound. And for the most part I still do. I got compliments after the gig I played with it. I was easily heard in a acoustically harsh room with a loudish drummer. But then I did some web-surfing about some other amps, hit on the Thunderfunk, and had the unfortunate idea planted in my head that solid-state had more "umph" than class D like the GB 6.0. I did some side by side listening against my old Peavyt TKO and I did indeed notice that there was a quality to the TKO that I liked and couldn't match with the GB/avatar rig. I'm not experienced enough to really describe it, but I just though the GB/Avatar sounded a bit hollow compared to the TKO, which had more "balls."
Not sure why. Is it the class D v. Solid state? 210 v. 115? So here I go trying to be helpful and I think I probably just made things more confusing...
Low_Ryder said:
I feel you are hearing the difference more in the drivers. Can you drive the tko with the GB? That would give you a better idea.
Right. You're now trying to compare one amp/cab combination with another amp/cab combination, and the amps differ from each other in 100 different ways and the cabs differ from each other in 100 different ways. There are therefore 100s x 100s (?) of reasons why you might prefer the sound of one combination over the other.
Remember, the OP's question was whether, given that he has a particular (unspecified) amp, and is thinking about buying an Avatar cab, he should get a 2x10 or 2x12!
Yeah, I guess in a roundabout sort of way I was wondering if the sound I was (or wasn't) hearing was due to having the B210. I was (in my own mind, at least) suggesting that the 210 might not have that low end girth that a 115 or even a 112 might have. Of course, as mentioned I have so many other variables that my whole speculation is pretty vague.
I think I'll see if I can drive my TKO with the GB head. The TKo is only rated at 80W though...
I think I'll see if I can drive my TKO with the GB head. The TKo is only rated at 80W though...
I thought Class D, also known as digital switching amps, were one thing. And those with MOSFET technology were commonly called solid state. Whatever they are called, those ultralight new amps are made differently than the older heavy (but without tubes) amps.
Low_Ryder said:
I may have been dumb about suggesting driving the tko with the gb. It will only work if you have a detachable input for the speaker which I don't think the tko has. Don't go putting the output from the gb into the amp return on the tko. You could put the preamp out in the amp return but that's not going to tell you anything specific about what you're asking.
First of all neo's are not better or necessarily worse than ceramics. Neo's have become popular because of weight and the players preference in tone. Guys who use a lot of mids and not so much bottom end may prefer neo's. Guys who like extended/boosted low end typically choose ceramics as they in most cases have better low end response without farting out. lowryder------ There are some differences between what your referring to as class d versus non class d amps, some feel the differences are minimal others feel more strongly. In your case using a GB 6.0, they were voiced with some of the lowest frequencies filtered out so they would not damage some of the small GB neo cabs they were being sold with. I owned a 6.0 and liked it, but when the 9.0 came out I bought it because of the additional power but also because they voiced it differently without as much low end filtering. All of the new GB .2 shuttle amps are voiced with more bottom as well.
This is a misconception that has been addressed a lot in this forum.
Found an example for you, with Bill Fitz quickly comparing the neo and ceramic avatar 12" drivers:
http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f15/i...-going-sb112-neo-delta-lf-619786/#post8563299
The eminence 3012LF can put out much more low end than the avatar ceramic driver, and it's a NEO. The magnet material doesn't really matter.
I also would go with the 2X10.
I have an SB112 which I am trading in tomorrow for a 4x10 purely for volume.
Love the sound of the 12" but have some unsupported gigs and it only gets so loud, even with another 12.
I have an SB112 which I am trading in tomorrow for a 4x10 purely for volume.
Love the sound of the 12" but have some unsupported gigs and it only gets so loud, even with another 12.
lmfreeman9 said:
What size were your gigs? I'm soooo intrigued by the sb112's tone. Is this a good cab to record with?
Maybe you should read my post again. I was asking about 10 inch drivers. The eminence lf drivers eminence offer (via Avatar) are very good drivers. The post you refer to is from someone who not only uses, endorses and sells neo cabs does not resolve anything. If you contact Avitar, depending on who you speak to there, they will diplomatically tell you the neo and ceramic speakers built by eminence for them are very comparable with the ceramic have a bit better low end response.
I read it correctly. What you said is not true. And you wouldn't be arguing with me about it, you'd have to argue with the acoustic and electric engineers on the forum. I'm just telling you what they've said.
Just saying... according to people who work with speakers professionally, you won't gain anything by using the heavier speaker in this situation. Might as well save yourself some poundage.
+1 on the 210/112 combination.
The one thing I will add is that, on its own, the 112 is much preferable for upright bass.
The one thing I will add is that, on its own, the 112 is much preferable for upright bass.
