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Double Bass Bach Cello Suite Tunings

B

BrianS198

Sep 21, 2010
107
6
Wichita, KS
#1
So I've worked through the first cello suite like dozens of other bass players, but I'd like to work on some of the others. I e-mailed Rinat Ibragimov about his third cello suite stuff, and he more or less told me that the 1st suite is really the only one he thinks can be played well by a lower level musician in standard tuning.

Therefore, is there any good axioms for bass tunings for any of the suites? Or alternate tunings? I've looked around and I've had no luck with finding anything for certain. I would really appreciate any help you guys can offer!

Thanks!
Brian
 
#4
I've only ever heard any of the Bach cello suites played on the bass, live and recorded, in solo tuning. I think Rabbath made his recordings of them in standard tuning, however.

I've never heard those recordings myself...and I don't think I've ever heard any of them performed in an alternate tuning by anyone.
 
#5
I completely understand the solo tuning. It sounds a lot crisper to me in solo tuning.

My question more or less lies with some of the chords you see in the 3rd or the 5th suite for example. I can't understand a good way to play them without sacrificing too much. Maybe I should just analyze them and find better ways to play them, haha.
 
#6
If J.S. Bach were alive today, (or you in your current form with your current bass+goals were around back then), and you went up to him and said in a language he understood, "Hello good sir, I kindly ask you to arrange your 3rd cello suite for my instrument the double bass tuned E-A-D-G at A-440Hz. I will pay you well for your work. I look forward to playing these pieces for the greater glory of humanity. I am but a simple humble amateur with a great love for music and I ask that you consider my meager skill level when composing this new piece."

He would probably take the piece and change it, not just transpose keys, but change the voicings and figuration patterns to make it comfortably playable on a DB tuned in 4ths. It would be done so well, it would sound amazing. Just look at the WTC book 1 prelude 1 and the Cello suite 1, it's the same piece just re-composed for the instrument at hand.

Imagine that and then do the re-composing yourself. It might be good!
 
#8
BrianS198 said:
I completely understand the solo tuning. It sounds a lot crisper to me in solo tuning.

My question more or less lies with some of the chords you see in the 3rd or the 5th suite for example. I can't understand a good way to play them without sacrificing too much. Maybe I should just analyze them and find better ways to play them, haha.
Click to expand...

Which chords are causing you trouble? I will just tell you a fingering to make it happen. As longfinger mention, you can change some notes and voicings. But, you can keep everything pretty well in suites 3 and 5.
 
#11
BrianS198 said:
Really? I may have to hit you up on that. I haven't begun the 3rd or the 5th suite yet, but I'd like to this summer though. Any recommendations on which one to do first?
Click to expand...

Well 3 is the most standard of the two to play and it is usually done in G. But, it really doesn't matter. The big thing with 3 in C is there is a big section in the middle of the prelude where you are arpeggiating chords from top to bottom, then answer from bottom to top. The bottom to top part basically requires you to lock in 3-1-+ in a fixed position across the three strings which takes time to learn (about as much as it takes to learn to just play the chord). Also, in the first section of the Allemande there is a C that you hit in between a chord of ascending thirds. This clears up once the C becomes your open G.

If you have played suites 1 &/or 2 it doesn’t matter which one you do next. But the knowledge of how to play chords that 1 and 2 gives you is invaluable. Especially with 5, there is a chord every couple of notes it seems.
 
#13
BrianS198 said:
Yeah, I've thought about the 2nd as well. I just don't enjoy the 2nd suite nearly as much. Maybe I should give it a chance, heh.

Thanks for your advice guys. It has proved very useful!
Click to expand...

The cello suites were written for a fifths-tuned instrument. There is also some evidence that some of the suites might have originally been written for the piccolo cello with a high E string as they lie awkwardly even for the cellists. Paul Unger's five-stringer tuned in fifths is exactly one octave below the cello, which makes playing the suites much, much easier.
 
#14
rjspear said:
The cello suites were written for a fifths-tuned instrument. There is also some evidence that some of the suites might have originally been written for the piccolo cello with a high E string as they lie awkwardly even for the cellists. Paul Unger's five-stringer tuned in fifths is exactly one octave below the cello, which makes playing the suites much, much easier.
Click to expand...

The whole argument about it being easier in 5ths because it was written for a 5ths instrument is BS. Only people who have not been in 5ths say that. 5ths is beautiful and the bass sounds better, and there are many things that open up in 5ths that 4ths can't supply. But, Bach is not one of those things.

You can do it down an octave pretty well in 5ths but that is it. At pitch 4ths is the only option for MOST of the suites. You can do 1 and 2 ok in 5ths but that is about it.

And yes, suite 6 was written for a 5 string cello.
 
#15
mcnaire2004 said:
The whole argument about it being easier in 5ths because it was written for a 5ths instrument is BS. Only people who have not been in 5ths say that. 5ths is beautiful and the bass sounds better, and there are many things that open up in 5ths that 4ths can't supply. But, Bach is not one of those things.
Click to expand...

Respectfully disagree. Here's a note I received from a gentleman who owns one of my short-scale five-stringers tuned in fifths.

I just spent the last hour SIGHT READING the first Bach Cello Suite! I've been waiting 25 years to be able to do that on the bass. What an amazing difference it makes to have a high "e" string that sounds GOOD and balanced with the rest of the bass. With this bass I could read the suite in the lower positions where it was meant to be played. I could also perform all of the chords and open strings that Bach intended - the bass was ringing all over the place!

Since the contrabass is an instrument expressly designed to play an octave below the bass (the cello, historically), the suites should be played sounding down one octave. Anyone who can do it at pitch certainly has my admiration. I confess that my bass playing skills never got to the point where I would even contemplate tackling a Bach cello suite in any octave, but from this it looks like at least half of them would be possible on a five-stringer tuned in fifths, and the young lions coming out of the conservatories today will almost surely get the other half.
 
#16
I think the challenge of playing the suites at pitch is what makes the pieces appeal to me. Plus, I think it can sound muddy when it gets that low. Have you tried playing the first suite in G major down an octave? I imagine the first chord in the prelude would be one hell of a string crossing. :)
 
#17
rjspear said:
Respectfully disagree. Here's a note I received from a gentleman who owns one of my short-scale five-stringers tuned in fifths.

I just spent the last hour SIGHT READING the first Bach Cello Suite! I've been waiting 25 years to be able to do that on the bass. What an amazing difference it makes to have a high "e" string that sounds GOOD and balanced with the rest of the bass. With this bass I could read the suite in the lower positions where it was meant to be played. I could also perform all of the chords and open strings that Bach intended - the bass was ringing all over the place!

Since the contrabass is an instrument expressly designed to play an octave below the bass (the cello, historically), the suites should be played sounding down one octave. Anyone who can do it at pitch certainly has my admiration. I confess that my bass playing skills never got to the point where I would even contemplate tackling a Bach cello suite in any octave, but from this it looks like at least half of them would be possible on a five-stringer tuned in fifths, and the young lions coming out of the conservatories today will almost surely get the other half.
Click to expand...

Down the octave i concede that 5ths is easier for much of the suites. I was reffering to playing them at pitch
 

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