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Double Bass Bach on Bass

#61
bassbaterie said:
Probably makes it much more effective to PLAY without a bunch of trippy visuals pelting around in one's head every time the bow touches the string.
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LOL

I have no idea, really. Sometimes I wish such pelting was going on to distract me from all the self-consciousness I feel. It is very, very rare for me to be in that zone where I'm just PLAYING
 
#62
I think Silvio at our workshop in May has some info about "just" playing and getting in that zone. We'll have to remember to ask him to cover that. There are a couple remarks about it on his site silviodallatorre.com.

Like, how about it, we're going to meet the Bassetto guy YEAH!

I got the site about the workshop running - it ought to be linked here to TB pretty soon but if you wanna take a look in the meantime it's Invalid Link Removed .
 
#66
fcleff said:
Hey Bassbaterie, fill me in on two things: What's up with the Silvio talk and this workshop in May? What the heck does "Paganini Wanna-bini" mean. :bassist:
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Silvio is sposed to give a workshop here in Austin May 20 - that's the Invalid Link Removed thing. Get here and we'll tip a 90-minute IPA!

The Paganini thing has just been something I've practiced obsessively since I was a wee little Suzuki violinist. Most of the concerti and caprices are not reasonable to get up-to-tempo on bass, but if it keeps one practicing scales, arpeggios and double-stop runs there has to be some benefit, beyond the hours of entertainment. Like an etude with a hook.
 
#72
kurt muroki said:
...It is very important to figure out when the feel is harmonic or melodic ... (arpeggiated or scaleur).
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Ever since I read this I've tried to understand it but I'm just not sure.

But last week when I was playing around with the beginning of the first suite again, I tried playing the lines as double stops and worked on getting the pairs spot on in tune...and then tried to join them together so that it all played sort of like it was a chord progression instead of a melody line.

It was hard to do that, but fun to try! Plus, it gave me a better awareness of my own intonation issues with those lines.

And speaking of intonation, I've always been of the mind that playing with the sort of intonation that allows one to blend in with the notes and chords of the other instruments is paramount. But lately, I've been wondering about that way of thinking as maybe not the best approach all the time....maybe a player wants to stand out sometimes...
 
#73
JayR said:
It's just that 2nd damn chord, you know? The C major first inversion arpeggio (G E C B C E C E) makes it feel like my wrist is gonna pop out of its socket.
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I was moving forward with this tune, finally beginning to break a little ground on slurring 4 note groups rather than doing everything super slow with opposite bows, and I reached the part where it does the D F# A (T 2 1) thing. Man that's a stretch too. I want to keep my index finger curled but dang on that one I have it easier collapsing that knuckle to make the reach to the F#.

Then I started goofing off on it T 2 T instead and it was cake, except there's a little bit of cut in getting the thumb back to the D. Still, real comfortable fingering...and the cut isn't so bad when you only have to get the D harmonic out.

So if you wanted to do the G E C B C E C E line using the thumb on the E instead of the first finger, you will likely feel less pain...you only lose some open G ring which may or may not be a dealbreaker for you. It's gotta be sacrificed for the C anyway.
 
#74
I don't think you should be too rigid on your technical values when you play this stuff, or at least there are some things you should consider:

1. roll the weight of your hand over the notes you are playing


This is really what God intended, trust me, you don't want to get carpal tunnel holding down your first finger on that e with your thumb on the g while you are really playing a c. You really don't want to hold anything down, but just use the weight of your arm to keep the string into the fingerboard.

2. Let you fingers collapse, at least sometimes.

You will find that it is very hard to keep them curved. keeping a lot of tension in your hand does not help anything. Rabbath collapses, why can't you?

3. Be creative

Don't worry about playing out of tune, just figure out how you can make this happen, then practice doing that in tune. You may be trying to fit a square peg in a round hole. Don't force it.

Good luck, and post some playing of this stuff, I'd love to hear some.

Thanks
 
#76
fcleff said:
I'm way late on this thread but felt this needed saying. I think the edition of the Suites by Mark Bernat SUCK!!!! Stay away from them. The bowings are really screwy and he uses tenor clef waaaaaay too much. In fact, the entire prelude from suite #1 is written in tenor clef. What a jerk.
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Actually, the more distasteful thing Bernat does is he changes notes with seemingly little or no regard for the structure of the piece. Compare some of his movements with a cello version and you'll see what I'm talking about. Forget the clef (as we should be able to read tenor clef anyway:p), forget his bowings, hate him for his butchering in the name of easiness. Most of the stuff he takes out actually is doable if you work at it long enough anyway... There's no need to change the direction of the piece in an attempt to make it easier to play.

*grah*
 
#77
O.K. I'm going to rant a little bit again. I agree with what you say about Bernat changing notes. It's pretty distasteful. As for tenor clef, I CAN read it, and I do. I just think that when you consider why we have tenor clef (we use it to avoid excessive ledger lines) the argument is fairly strong against Bernat's excessive use of it. Take a look at his version of the first suite. The whole dang thang is in tenor clef with ledger lines out the wazoo! I just don't see the reasoning behind this unless he just wants to say to the world, "Look how good I am at reading tenor clef!" If that is indeed what he wants to say, great. But the simple Cello Dover Edition has been working fine for me; I can transpose up an octave easier than I can read upwards of 4 ledger lines and I can add my own bowings, too. Oh well, I guess that I am still a little miffed that he stood up 200+ musicians at the ASTA conference in Reno, NV. Classy guy, that Mark. :mad:
 
#78
ok, so how do you guys finger the first few bars of the prelude of the first suite so as to get that open g string ring like a cello? so far i've come up with 3 possibilities... 1)play the open g and then the rest of the notes on the d and g strings, which will eventually cut of the ring by the time you get to the 3rd note of each measure. 2) play the open g and the rest of the measure on the a and d strings way up high, but not the best sound on these notes in these positions, and skipped string string crossing from g to a makes a break in the phrasing or 3) tune the a sring down to g and use the octave harmonic as the open drone and let it ring. pro: so far i get the best open g ring with this method, con: rest of the piece must now be fingered alittle awkwardly due to alternate tuning...
 
#79
I would go with your 1st fingering option. The third is an interesting idea that I have never heard before. I might have to check that out but it doesn't seem necessary for the G to be heard well. The open G is only written as a sixteenth note. It does not need to be ringing the entire measure. The G is on the strong beats and the rest of the notes emphasize the tonality. The G will naturally be in yours and the listeners ears. If you use the first fingering you can get some nice vibrato on all the notes too.
 
#80
thanks for the opinion... im not using much vibrato, if any at all though. the recording i'm trying to emulate is a cello recording, and that G is ringing for most of the measure even though it's written only as a 16th note. i realize that this may not be possible on the bass.
any other opinions?

Cory Palmer said:
I would go with your 1st fingering option. The third is an interesting idea that I have never heard before. I might have to check that out but it doesn't seem necessary for the G to be heard well. The open G is only written as a sixteenth note. It does not need to be ringing the entire measure. The G is on the strong beats and the rest of the notes emphasize the tonality. The G will naturally be in yours and the listeners ears. If you use the first fingering you can get some nice vibrato on all the notes too.
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