Bad learning technique

[Auspis]

Well I am back after some time, and you know, to summarize my situation, I inherited a bass guitar and a double bass so I am learning how to learn how to play them. Natively I play drums as a hobby but I love bass as well, I can easily memorize basslines, I like to sing a basslines.

Previously, I asked questions about learning the neck and practicing scales. But it's just not taking off, it's boring me to death.

What I do, I take the bass and play a song, finding the notes on the neck by trial and error until I mechanically can remember their position.

My question is.. given that it's only a hobby.. is it acceptable to learn this way or it's an outrage? Like, shoveling forward, thinking that I'll get on the scales later, internally knowing that I try to skip it.

Then ok, I discovered that tuning my bass 1/2 tone lower, some songs require a lower big string often, then all the notation from the standard tuning schematic is messed up because of that, all notes are 1/2 tone lower, it feels like learning a second neck. Then I ask myself, what should I do? learn the scales with the bass tuned 1/2 tone lower or with standard EADG? Then honnestly in my head my answer is **** it, picking up the base and finding the notes by ear. It gives fast result but I might shoot myself in the feet.



Not sure of how wrong this is exactly.

 

[Docduval]

Yep, perfectly fine. Play the way that’s fun for you.

 

[tubedude]

I'd you run out of room, just play the note an octave higher.
Take a look at Simandl to make fingering easier.

 

[Auspis]

@Docduval I am happy to read this.
@tubedude Ok, If I understand correctly, it's ok to practice the scales even if the bass is tuned 1/2 octave lower?. If there is not enough room for some of the lower scales, I skip those and play one similar 1 octave higher.

 

[Wasnex]

Well I am back after some time, and you know, to summarize my situation, I inherited a bass guitar and a double bass so I am learning how to learn how to play them. Natively I play drums as a hobby but I love bass as well, I can easily memorize basslines, I like to sing a basslines.

Previously, I asked questions about learning the neck and practicing scales. But it's just not taking off, it's boring me to death.

What I do, I take the bass and play a song, finding the notes on the neck by trial and error until I mechanically can remember their position.

My question is.. given that it's only a hobby.. is it acceptable to learn this way or it's an outrage? Like, shoveling forward, thinking that I'll get on the scales later, internally knowing that I try to skip it.

Then ok, I discovered that tuning my bass 1/2 tone lower, some songs require a lower big string often, then all the notation from the standard tuning schematic is messed up because of that, all notes are 1/2 tone lower, it feels like learning a second neck. Then I ask myself, what should I do? learn the scales with the bass tuned 1/2 tone lower or with standard EADG? Then honnestly in my head my answer is **** it, picking up the base and finding the notes by ear. It gives fast result but I might shoot myself in the feet.



Not sure of how wrong this is exactly.

Part of learning in the formal way is so you can communicate with other formally trained musicians. Whether that is important or not can only be ascertained by living the experience. You may get bored with bass tomorrow, meaning learning the correct way doesn't matter. Learning the correct way may matter if you stick with it.

Learning a musical instrument is not all fun. For most people, to get good requires study and discipline. Achievements that results from hard work have there own type of satisfaction, even though doing the work may be frustrating and difficult.

Nothing wrong with what you are doing, but it's really only one of many things you will need to do in order to become a well-rounded bassist.

Quite a bit of what you need to learn to be a well-rounded bassist is foundational. I.E. you need to gain basic knowledge and skill that will later support more advanced learning. Progress tends to be faster and more steady if you do things in a logical order. A good teacher can provide the necessary structure and guidance. Following a proven path is usually a lot more effective than someone trying to figure out how to do something on their own.

Of course, the decision on if and how you proceed is totally up to you.

Good luck!

 

[Auspis]

@Wasnex I don't know what is going to happen with bass yet. I thought I would give up drumming then something happened, I took it out again and practiced every day to the point where I can now just sit and play along jazz pieces of music. Now that it's possible to do that, it's really really fun and motivating, developing my own phrases out of the blue, in real time. it's really a great feeling. My #1 drummer is Jack Dejohnette, his playing is as musical as it can be on a percussion instrument.

I can sing the bass lines but my hands can't reach the notes right now, . But I know kind of feeling reward with the drum, so this is motivating.

For the bass, right now I am not autonomous, earlier today I played a song from David Bowie, Cygnet Committee, and was able to capture some notes on the double bass, it's really fun even if my score is only 5%.

Wow what a gift, life gave me a vintage double bass, it wanted me to play it.

===============
All this is a bit off topic, but I see what you mean about being an all rounded bassist. I'd like to work with a teacher for bass, not for drums but yes for bass. I wonder if Melissa Auf Der Maur still lives in Monteral, i'd take lessons from her!

 

[jallenbass]

If I were just learning electric bass, I would go to Rich Brown's YouTube Channel and start with his beginner's lessons.

Rich Brown - The Brown'stone

Welcome to The Brown'stone, friends & neighbours. Thanks for being here.

www.youtube.com

 

[JonathanPDX]

Well I am back after some time, and you know, to summarize my situation, I inherited a bass guitar and a double bass so I am learning how to learn how to play them. Natively I play drums as a hobby but I love bass as well, I can easily memorize basslines, I like to sing a basslines.

Previously, I asked questions about learning the neck and practicing scales. But it's just not taking off, it's boring me to death.

What I do, I take the bass and play a song, finding the notes on the neck by trial and error until I mechanically can remember their position.

My question is.. given that it's only a hobby.. is it acceptable to learn this way or it's an outrage? Like, shoveling forward, thinking that I'll get on the scales later, internally knowing that I try to skip it.

Then ok, I discovered that tuning my bass 1/2 tone lower, some songs require a lower big string often, then all the notation from the standard tuning schematic is messed up because of that, all notes are 1/2 tone lower, it feels like learning a second neck. Then I ask myself, what should I do? learn the scales with the bass tuned 1/2 tone lower or with standard EADG? Then honnestly in my head my answer is **** it, picking up the base and finding the notes by ear. It gives fast result but I might shoot myself in the feet.



Not sure of how wrong this is exactly.

I don't think there's a "right" or "wrong" way to play, learn, or explore music. However, there are some methods that are easier and more efficient than others. It all comes down to what your goals are, and how much you want to invest into music and the bass.

There's nothing wrong with plunking around and finding your own way. That method will be the slowest by far, but if you are enjoying the journey and don't want to invest in lessons then keep going and you'll learn some things through experience! But if you really want to get past the trial and error phase and move ahead to really being able to play songs and use your time for music rather than exploration, then having at least a few lessons will save you months if not years of time compared to trial and error by yourself!

Technique can be really difficult to learn alone. Your body was not built to do these things with your hands, joints, and tendons, so bad habits can snowball into issues that either limit your ability to play (by having poor technique that slows you down) or even health issues by repeatedly doing things in a way that's bad for your body. This is another reason early lessons are beneficial.

Lastly, it helps to recognize the difference between practicing and playing music. Practice time should be difficult, when you are learning things you cannot play perfectly or theories and concepts that you really need to study and think about in order to put to use. Making stuff up or jamming along to records is great and important, but that's playing, not really practicing in most cases. It's important to do both, but to keep it balanced. A lot of people get into a habit of noodling around all the time and call it practice without actually learning anything, and then they wonder why they are never getting better.

Oh, also, you might check out Victor Wooten's book The Lesson, which is also about a bass player who is bored with practicing his scales! I'm biased, since I'm a voice actor on the audio book, but I think it's pretty good.

 

[scrubhelmet]

What I do, I take the bass and play a song, finding the notes on the neck by trial and error until I mechanically can remember their position.

My question is.. given that it's only a hobby.. is it acceptable to learn this way or it's an outrage?

This is almost how I learned how to play bass. I've been playing guitar for seven years until I started working and finally have dispensable income. Bought an approximately 200 USD Washburn bass and played the bass lines of the songs that I like from start to finish until little by little the bass grew on me. I only learned how to hit the strings and slap by watching Flea's videos and several years after that, I'm starting to realize why it's bad and unhealthy.

The difference is, coming from guitar, I have the carryover skill of fretboard memory; I already know all the notes all over the fretboard, as well as the shapes of major scale, minor scale, harmonic scale, etc.

 

[SteveCS]

Previously, I asked questions about learning the neck and practicing scales. But it's just not taking off, it's boring me to death.

...

My question is.. given that it's only a hobby.. is it acceptable to learn this way or it's an outrage? Like, shoveling forward, thinking that I'll get on the scales later, internally knowing that I try to skip it.

I'm not going to advise one way or the other, but I will offer you these thoughts:

The point of the methods and the exercises within them, including the scales, is to develop Handshape/Posture and good physical technique. Handshape/Posture and good technique in general is of critical importance for a number of reasons, the main ones being 1) safety, which translates to avoidance of injury and longevity of your playing career (whatever that may be); 2) development of secure, reliable intonation, and 3) you get a proven approach to fingerboard navigation. All 3 of these things are 'enablers' that lead to better things... You may move on to better things without them, but a good dose of Carpal Tunnel Syndrome will stop you in your tracks!

 

[JamesGrant]

Are you down tuning the double bass? Personally I’d avoid that.
If you want to ‘just do what you want’ then go for it. But don’t be surprised if you don’t ‘progress’. This may be totally fine.

The purpose of all the educational methods is that it’s honed over hundreds of years by thousands of people (teachers and students) to give good results for most people - ie; progress at a faster pace than you’d achieve solo.
Progress = fun (I promise!!)

If you want to have fun and you are sufficiently motivated to join a bass-related chat forum then I bet finding a teacher (in person or online) will take your enjoyment up several notches.

 

[MVE]

It all depends on your goals.

What goal are you really trying to achieve?

There is a best path to every place on the instrument and many people here can help you with that, but its obviously crucial to know exactly where that place is first.

 

[mambo4]

given that it's only a hobby..

if there is no pressure to play with others, do what ya feel and have fun

but bass is typically an ensemble instrument, to be played in a group.
if your goal is to play with others eventually,
put in the work and learn the language of music on your instrument,
for the sake of the people you want to play with.
and have fun

it's boring me to death.

scales are not inherently boring. Been playing 30 years and still find surprises and new understandings in the "basic" major scale.
"I am bored by scales" is a better way to phrase it - it correctly assigns the boredom to you.
you don't "fix" scales to be less boring, you have to fix your own mindset.
my go-to cure for boredom while playing is listening

but changing one's attitude takes work and mindfulness, it is easier said than done.

 

[Ostie]

Not wrong. If it makes you pick up the bass and play it, while the other ways don’t, then it’s probably the best for you.

I came to the bass after learning guitar. With the guitar I was mostly learning chords. I took one class in basic fingerpicking, and failed miserably. I still can’t finger pick worth a damn.

When I got to the bass, it was more ear learning, like you, but I already had some experience with scales, chords and intervals. Once I learned the basic 1-4-5 progression and variations, things fell into place.

Fifty years ago we didn’t have YouTube or Spotify. You had to put on the record, find the song or phrase you were trying to learn, and keep dropping the tone arm over and over. Sometimes the song was “out of tune” meaning the band was drop tuned, or the engineer sped it up or slowed it down when mixing or mastering. We didn’t have digital tuners, so you tuned to the song and then the next song you were out of tune again. I don’t mean this to be like “kids these days” I’ m just saying, that’s what we did ‘cuz that’s what we had. You had to be patient and motivated. If you stay patient and motivated, you will keep learning.

 

[brianrost]

The controversial Jeff Berlin really pushes music education but I heard him say at a clinic back int he 1980s that if you want to play rock, learning by ear is OK because that’s how most rock music was created. The same could be said for blues and folk music.

However, studying whether it’s from books, videos, lessons or going to school speeds up the process and opens up access to other styles of music...you mentioned jazz. Many of the early jazz musicians grew up with access to music instruction in public school, learning to read music and played in ensembles like marching bands.

 

[jthisdell]

Learning scales and chords, etc. help you “find the notes” easier, enabling you to play songs you don’t know with people you have just met. If you join a jam, no one ever knows how to follow the bass player, they will just stare at you. But if you know enough scales, theory, etc you can follow anyone.

I would say this is true of any genre.
I have a nephew who plays guitar, pretty decent natural player, learned from a teacher who taught him songs that the student choose. Once I sat down with him and he could play his songs but when I suggested a Blues Jam in A he just looked at me and had no idea where to start

 

[dbsfgyd1]

Well I am back after some time, and you know, to summarize my situation, I inherited a bass guitar and a double bass so I am learning how to learn how to play them. Natively I play drums as a hobby but I love bass as well, I can easily memorize basslines, I like to sing a basslines.

Previously, I asked questions about learning the neck and practicing scales. But it's just not taking off, it's boring me to death.

What I do, I take the bass and play a song, finding the notes on the neck by trial and error until I mechanically can remember their position.

My question is.. given that it's only a hobby.. is it acceptable to learn this way or it's an outrage? Like, shoveling forward, thinking that I'll get on the scales later, internally knowing that I try to skip it.

Then ok, I discovered that tuning my bass 1/2 tone lower, some songs require a lower big string often, then all the notation from the standard tuning schematic is messed up because of that, all notes are 1/2 tone lower, it feels like learning a second neck. Then I ask myself, what should I do? learn the scales with the bass tuned 1/2 tone lower or with standard EADG? Then honnestly in my head my answer is **** it, picking up the base and finding the notes by ear. It gives fast result but I might shoot myself in the feet.



Not sure of how wrong this is exactly.

I play a lot by position based off of the root note. Say you play a A on the fifth fret of the E string. The 4th of the scale is the A string 5th fret. The 5th is the A string on the 7th fret. With standard tuning you can pick any of twelve frets of the E and the 4th is always going to be at the same fret of the A , the 5th is always two frets up from the 4th on that same string. This is when you are going up the scale. Going down the scale starting on then 5th fret A string the 5th is on the E 5th is one fret, the 4th is 3 fret E. So as long as you have the root identified, it doesn’t matter what key you’re are in. If you can sing bass parts, all you need to do is memorize the fingering in one key, it’s transportable to any key.

Obviously, if you only down tune one string it’s going to throw this off.

I hope this helps. BESt wishes.

 

[BassicJazzy]

If I were just learning electric bass, I would go to Rich Brown's YouTube Channel and start with his beginner's lessons.

Rich Brown - The Brown'stone

Welcome to The Brown'stone, friends & neighbours. Thanks for being here.

www.youtube.com

Absolutely, 100% could not agree with this more. It's what I did, starting with his beginner lessons and then going up through the remainder of his material, after having taken a 25 year hiatus from the bass. Rich has the best method, IMO, for getting you up to speed quickly.

 

[fdeck]

If this were the double bass side of TB, you’d get two pieces of advice. First is to find a teacher. The reason is that the double bass is a physical instrument, and you can actually be injured by learning it wrong. Even if there are different schools of thought on how to play, most of them have converged on principles that allow someone to play for a long time without injury. A person who can look at what you’re doing and offer corrective advice can be a lot more effective than an online tutorial.

The second thing is that all upright basses require maintenance, and a “setup” may make it a lot easier and rewarding to play. A teacher can check your bass over, and recommend a luthier. The good bass luthiers are sensitive to the fact that we’re not all swimming in money, and if your bass needs work, they can suggest a plan of action that’s appropriate for the instrument and your budget.

 

[EddiePlaysBass]

Yep, perfectly fine. Play the way that’s fun for you.

I think this is really what it boils down to. Make sure you're having fun.

A lot of people get into a habit of noodling around all the time and call it practice without actually learning anything, and then they wonder why they are never getting better.

I spent several years doing just that, and indeed wondering why I was stalling.

These days, I try to switch between: learning to read (by means of the Hal Leonard Bass Method book), building technique (mainly Bass Aerobics) and (not frequently enough) ear training.

This morning I heard a nice tune by a band called Wet Willie, so I am now working on that bass line. My ear is underdeveloped and neglected, so it's a bit frustrating. But in a good way.