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Bad sounding bass in IEM's

Tedward

Tedward

Feb 15, 2006
659
159
southern california
#1
Our church has switched over to in ear monitor system, Sure P3T with SE215 monitors. The bass has no tone, no dynamics, a hissing sound with each note, and some times distortion as if going through a distortion pedal. It's not the bass, I have tried five different basses some active and some passive with the same results. The gain is below clipping too. Most of the band members hear nice clean bass but the drummer, one of the back up vocalist, and I hear the noise. It's bad enough that I pull the iem's and rely on the FOH for monitoring. Any ideas as to what is going on?

Tedward
 
#2
I had the same problem. Had cheap IEMs. Bought expensive ones (well, my band actually paid for them). Problem gone.

:)

I'd tell ya what I got but I don't remember and I'm too tired to search. Someone else will come along soon and remind me, and then I'll respond with, "Oh yeah! Those are the ones!"
 
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#3
With IEMs the better the set the better the bass tone generally speaking.
But they may not explain your problem, at least entirely.
If you plug your IEMs into someone's pack who is hearing clean / good sounding bass. Do you also hear good bass different from what you're hearing from your pack ?

& vise versa do they hear crappy sounding bass if they plug into your pack ? If yes then it's not the earbuds ( higher end models do sound better low end wise though )
It's the signal going to your mix maybe a shorting cable maybe too hot a level or gain staging problem.

If when you plug your IEM into their pack and your hear the same bad sound then you may have defective earbuds or just need a better set for the time you like.
Also what is your signal path to FOH ? Preamp or DI & what is the ideal tone your after?
 
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#4
Tedward said:
Our church has switched over to in ear monitor system, Sure P3T with SE215 monitors. The bass has no tone, no dynamics, a hissing sound with each note, and some times distortion as if going through a distortion pedal. It's not the bass, I have tried five different basses some active and some passive with the same results. The gain is below clipping too. Most of the band members hear nice clean bass but the drummer, one of the back up vocalist, and I hear the noise. It's bad enough that I pull the iem's and rely on the FOH for monitoring. Any ideas as to what is going on?

Tedward
Click to expand...
I got SE215's with my PSM200.. they lasted about 5 mins in my ears. They are SINGLE driver buds and will distort quickly, can't handle deep bass and hasten ear fatigue.
I always recommend TRIPLE drivers for bassists, because you can control how MUCH BASS you get in your mix.
With single driver buds, everything is going thru ONE speaker, right next to your ear.. You boost the bass, and zzzzttt.. distortion.
Here's some additional comments I made on single drivers...
OTE vs. IEM

As suggested above.. plug into another unit and see if you get the same results. IF you do.. UPGRADE your buds.
If you get good clean sound from the other one, you have a wireless frequency issue..
My humble guess (from your description) is wireless interference. Pick a different frequency ??
 
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#7
Thanks for the replies. We have changed frequencies and I don't think it's the buds, other band members are getting good clean sound and the distortion and hissing happens at low volume. So I don't think the buds are being over driven. I have noticed there some spots on the stage that I should stay away from. The interference is so bad that the sound is all garbled up so bad it just sounds like noise.

Is there a way to control the tone and dynamics or are those related to the distortion and hissing. The volume is the same if I lightly pluck the string or hit hard, making it hard to play the softer passages.

Tedward
 
#8
Tedward said:
Thanks for the replies. We have changed frequencies and I don't think it's the buds, other band members are getting good clean sound and the distortion and hissing happens at low volume. So I don't think the buds are being over driven. I have noticed there some spots on the stage that I should stay away from. The interference is so bad that the sound is all garbled up so bad it just sounds like noise.

Is there a way to control the tone and dynamics or are those related to the distortion and hissing. The volume is the same if I lightly pluck the string or hit hard, making it hard to play the softer passages.

Tedward
Click to expand...

Wait, what? Have you checked the frequencies others are using? Are you stomping on one of them? It's been a while, but I think some manufacturers' packs will do a sweep for you, looking for open frequencies.
 
#9
Sounds like you might have a gain staging problem with the feed to your wireless unit and the AF levels on the unit itself.
It's important that be set correctly.. so the vol level on your receiver works correctly...
 
#11
songwriter21 said:
Ugh, really? I was strictly going from a price standpoint. I'll steer clear of them, then!
Click to expand...
yeah.. I have nothing against the company..they were on my shortlist when I was going customs.. He's the only one I know that has them, and that was his experience.
Can't be everyone or they would still be in business ??
 
#13
s0c9 said:
yeah.. I have nothing against the company..they were on my shortlist when I was going customs.. He's the only one I know that has them, and that was his experience.
Can't be everyone or they would still be in business ??
Click to expand...

@Tedward

Well then, I recommend the universal (foam tip) IEMs I've been using for a few years now, with great results. If you want the full-molded customs, then go that route, but I like the foams, sooooo I say Westone W40. They're not cheap, but sound really nice (four drivers per ear), and I think the foam tips stay in better than, yes, even a custom monitor. When I sweat, silicone and especially acrylic fall out of my ears.

W40 Earphones - Universal Series
 
#14
Tedward said:
Our church has switched over to in ear monitor system
Click to expand...

I also play in church and recently started playing in a gym stage with only IEMs, no amplifiers. I use a Shure SE 525s and have no problem hearing the bass clearly, I tried the 215s and could not hear a thing when it came to bass.

I would try a good pair of regular headphones during rehearsal and see if that makes a difference so that you can isolate the problem. I do that mainly because it is easier to take them off and on and I don't care how it looks for rehearsal.

Please let us know how you make out.
 
#15
I use a Shure PSM300 system with Shure SE215 buds. It sounds beautiful. No distortion and the only time my buds failed was when I stepped on a pair between sets.

I would start by trying to figure out if the problem is with the buds, the receivers, the transmitters, or the feed driving the transmitters. So first leave everything the same except use a different pair of buds. If it sounds good then it's the buds.

If it still sounds bad, use a different receiver pack set to the same frequency as the bad-sounding transmitter. If that sounds good it's something in the receiver.

If it still sounds bad, route the feed to a good-sounding transmitter/receiver combination, but IMPORTANT set the frequencies to the same ones as the bad-sounding transmitter/receiver. If that sounds good it's your transmitter.

If it still sounds bad, change the frequency of the transmitter and receiver pack. If that fixes it then your transmitter/receiver was set to a frequency that is too close to something else nearby--like a TV station, for example.

If it still sounds bad, something in your mix or the gain driving the transmitter isn't right.

Tom
 
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#16
I use Shure 425's, they are the dual driver ones and cost around $299. The Shure buds utilize removable tips, and different sizes are included with the buds. I went to an audiologist, and had custom tips molded for my ears for about $100. The seal is great, which is crucial for a good IEM bass sound (in my experience). And because the tips are removable, I can transfer them to a different Shure set if needed.
 
#17
I use SE215s with no issues at my church as well. Getting a good bass sound is dependent on how well you can seal the tips in your ears. My guess is gain staging or a cable problem somewhere. Especially if certain areas on the stage are more prone than others to causing interference.

Definitely try other packs or boxes whatever someone else is using and has good sound to try and isolate your problem. Buds do come out defective some and hopefully you can return them if yours are faulty.
 
#18
Hiss sounds like a gain structure problem with whatever is feeding the IEM's - probably a problem back at the mixing board. Drummers and Bassists need the highest gain/levels to hear themselves well, so we're the folks that will hear hiss first. Work with your sound person - hopefully they'll be able to help you sort things out. I wear multi driver buds most of the time, but my backups are single drivers, and they work fine too (I use them for practice on a regular basis).
 
#19
Coming at it from a troubleshooting perspective here are the variables I can see trying to change

(Test headphones )
Plug your headphones/IEMs into someone else's channel
Plug your IEMs into a phone or MP3 player to test
(Test receiver)
Can someone else plug into your receiver and get the same thing?
Does the transmitter have a headphone jack on the unit to test the signal wired skipping the receiver?
(IEM channel )
Can you change aux channels in case it's the board?

Is it all sound that has problems or just your bass? If it's just your bass you could test the every item in the chain from your bass to the board. Or backwards from the earbuds back.

I usually like to only change or test one variable but in a complex setup I'm
All for eliminating everything possible and making it as simple as possible.

Bass-DI-board-headphones. As a test. Then start adding on items until you find the problem.

My hunch is frequency interference with the transmitter/receiver.
 
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#20
Scottkarch said:
Coming at it from a troubleshooting perspective here are the variables I can see trying to change

(Test headphones )
Plug your headphones/IEMs into someone else's channel
Plug your IEMs into a phone or MP3 player to test
(Test receiver)
Can someone else plug into your receiver and get the same thing?
Does the transmitter have a headphone jack on the unit to test the signal wired skipping the receiver?
(IEM channel )
Can you change aux channels in case it's the board?

Is it all sound that has problems or just your bass? If it's just your bass you could test the every item in the chain from your bass to the board. Or backwards from the earbuds back.

I usually like to only change or test one variable but in a complex setup I'm
All for eliminating everything possible and making it as simple as possible.

Bass-DI-board-headphones. As a test. Then start adding on items until you find the problem.

My hunch is frequency interference with the transmitter/receiver.
Click to expand...
Yeah this is a good trouble shooting List to rundown right here. Hope you find a solution.
 

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