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Badass I bridge (original) saddle source? or machine myself???

cdlynch

cdlynch

Nov 11, 2009
647
690
Boston's Glorious South Shore
www.choochoolarouge.com
#1
I have a weird Shaller bridge I can use for a project, but I'd much rather use my old original BadAss I. Trouble is, the saddles are horribly butchered (not by me) so it's been sitting unused for several years. I took a stab at designing a replacement using the free CAD program from emachineshop.com, and just guessed at the tapped hole dimensions for now.

My design renders properly, but the program wants me to change it to something other than brass, make it bigger, and a couple of other errors that don't make sense. I picked the option for "I believe this to be machineable" to see if I could get a quote, but I don't think it's going to happen after 24 hours. Here's the rough 3D render:

BA1_saddle.gif

If I can find some suitable bar stock I could possibly do it by hand, but I'm a little concerned by the lead content of most brass, so I'm not sure what to choose, or how much that matters. I also have to figure out the hole dimensions and thread pitch, but I have no idea how to do that. I could match the intonation screw at HomeDepot, but the hex set screws are way too tiny for that!

Any ideas? If there IS a way to get these machined, the cost will go down with volume, so this could maybe benefit more than me! I'm not yet a supporting member, so this is NOT a for-profit venture!
 
#3
Common in small amounts, and can leach easily. Added for enhanced machineability:
Brass - Wikipedia

At this site, 5 of their 6 alloys contain lead:
Invalid Link Removed

The Naval Brass without lead from the above site is listed as having trace amounts of lead in this site:
http://www.nationalbronze.com/News/what-is-naval-brass/

From your link:
Lead-free brass as defined by California Assembly Bill AB 1953 contains "not more than 0.25 percent lead content"

I've read that there is no safe level of lead exposure, but with all the unplated brass bridges (or at least saddles) floating around, and the ubiquity of lead in common machineable brass, I have to figure it's not a huge deal. I just assumed brass was a go-to material, but maybe there are better choices.

In any case, I'm just trying to see if there's a rational way forward. I can't be the only person in need of replacement BadAss I saddles! If anyone knows how to determine tiny thread pitch, I'd be forever in your debt! If nothing else, it'd be cool to come up with a definitive 3D model for these with all the proper specs so it's available for everyone.
 
#4
That's quite a bit of machining if you are gonna make it from bar stock. 2 separate drill/tap setups with different size drill bits/taps. the angle cut will require either a fixture to hold the part at an angle or an end mill ground at the correct angle so you can make that cut in the same fixture you do the top drill/tap step. Then flip the thing and do the two bottom cuts. You could do it an an angle vise with plain old end mills and just cut your initial hogging and three finishing positions in some aluminum jaws, then reset the vise to make the angle cut. It's still gonna be pretty time consuming and labor intensive to turn out a batch with acceptable tolerances though.
 
#5
fhm555 said:
acceptable tolerances
Click to expand...

Well sure, if you wanna be all pro about it. :) If you inspect the original saddles in the grooves you'll see that the narrow part is slightly undersized to make up for the tilt caused by the bridge curvature, rather than angling the tops, so the design isn't super OCD to begin with. The width is .75", and the bottom part is a bit under .25" to allow for tilt.

I just saw a post here the other day from someone who did it by hand with a hack saw and a file, but OF COURSE I can't find it now... I'll link it if I can dig it up. That's what I was considering, but I still dunno what to do about measuring thread size and pitch.

Also, has anyone ever used emachineshop.com (or heard of it), or anything else like it?
 
#6
I've seen it but never used it. Seemed a but high and they are all about marketing. I was bored and downloaded the demo version of their programming software and i'm still getting emails.

You could do it by hand and maybe get away with it, but by the time you buy the materiel and tools you could just buy a whole bridge.
NEW Omega Badass Bass II Style Bridge for Fender Precision & Jazz 2 1/4" Chrome
 
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#9
cdlynch said:
Grinding isn't an option, sadly. They're too hacked up. If material could be added by welding then filing, that might save 'em. Would that cause hardness variations?
Click to expand...
Grinding the saddles down and affixing brass blocks to the tops with epoxy would probably be more practical than welding & grinding unless you plan to go the extra mile and have the saddles sandblasted and plated. But at a certain point you have to know when enough is enough considering the number of viable replacements that can be had for less than $100, including an original Badass on Reverb with saddles that look quite salvageable. Leo Quam Badass bass bridge chrome
 
#11
You are making this way too complicated. I have a modest machine shop here, and I make up custom saddles, bridges, tailpieces, and other metal instrument hardware all the time. That's part of my business.

Bridge saddles of that style can be made from aluminum, brass, steel, stainless, or titanium. If you want brass, standard 360 brass works just fine.

Anyone with a small milling machine and some machining skill can make up a couple of them for you for far less cost than going to a CNC shop. I'd charge you about $75 to make up a set of four. About two hours' labor. There isn't that much time involved to justify programming and setting up a CNC machine. Unless you want thousands of them.

I've made a lot of replacement Rickenbacker bass bridge saddles, which are similar in design to this. The general approach is to start with a piece of bar stock long enough to do the batch. Mill the whole strip to the profile (side view) of the shape, leaving excess at the ends to clamp to in the vise. Mill notches between them to form the rear tangs. Drill and tap all the holes, as a long strip. Then saw them apart and do a final cleanup on the side faces.

And yes, you can make them yourself with hand tools. A good small vise, some files, calipers, a small drill press. Same basic process as I described above, but cutting the surfaces with files. Carefully, checking and measuring often. These are small parts, so it really doesn't take much filing to remove the metal.

I hope this helps! Making small precise metal parts isn't really that hard. And it can be done without the aid of CNC machines.

By the way, I'm pretty sure that the threads on that BA saddle would be 4-40 for the height adjusting screws, and 6-32 for the intonation adjustment screws. Those were the sizes commonly used on American made hardware back then.
 
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#12
@Bruce Johnson - Thanks for the detailed information! I've seen the original bridge with clean saddles go between $50-75, so it's pretty clear why you don't see the saddles for sale alone, and I bet the market is too small to justify a bigger production run to lower the price. It always pays to run the numbers before diving into a project! I'll keep you in mind for custom machining, thanks again.
 
#13
Yes, that's the cost reality of machining custom instrument hardware. If you asked me to machine up a one-off replica of a BA bridge, I'd have to charge you about $350. The chrome plating alone for a one-off would cost me $40.

If you got any bids from a working CNC machine shop for those 4 saddles, it would probably be $200-$300. Most CNC shops charge $100-$150 per hour plus programming time. It wouldn't take them very long at all to actually cut the parts. The cost would be for the downtime on their machine while setting up and repositioning the parts.

The original BA base and saddles were made by die casting. The tooling cost $25K, but then the set of parts comes out raw for maybe $5 each. Cleanup, polishing, plating, assembly and packaging, and the whole bridge comes out the factory at maybe $15 each. A few thousand at a time. Then, with distributor and retail markups, it sells for $50.
 
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