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Band imploded. Or maybe we're just on hiatus...

#21
ArtechnikA said:
I agree with 'Less Hassle.'
He already does a solo show with backing tracks, so I'm guessing a duo would have to make twice what he gets for that to be a better deal for him.
Our market research told us a full-stage-show Willie performance should bring in $1500-2000 and 1/6 of that is more than I think we'd net as a duo.
But what we get from players is "I don't want to work hard enough to be in a big-name production - I'm happier playing for $50 in a weekend bar band."
Donno how we get past that, even once the scene opens up, whenever that will be.
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Seems like for $250=$333 per gig you could hire pros who could just show up and play with minimal rehearsal time. I know it's a gray area between pro and amateur, but for that kind of scratch I'd just hire pros and skip the weekend warriors. Send them the charts and give them a downbeat time.
 
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#22
ArtechnikA said:
It's a Tribute (check my sig...)
Yes, Willie's famous for his rubato, and "my Willie" gets that down...
Which means, unlike every other vocal-based band in the world*, you _must not_ adjust your timing to match the singer !
You better be able to keep your own time and ignore the vocals - Willie will meet you on the 1 and you better be there... But maybe not the next 1, some 1 eventually...
_____________________
*Possible exception of Julio Iglesias...
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Listened to a couple of your songs. That's cool.
 
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#23
kesslari said:
Maybe just change the name from Willie Nelson to Won't 'e Nelson... :D
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Or Willie Hell Son...

Sounds frustrating for sure... I've been in a few situations like this over the years and i learnt that the bigger the idea on paper, the less chance of it happening. The last one to go pear shaped for me was a 'wedding band' - started out as a four piece (drums, bass, guitar, keys with 3 vox), but after one full rehearsal it was decided we should look for a horn section, synth players, second guitarist etc etc.
There was never a second rehearsal
 
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#25
"Generalized rant, not seeking advice..."
Wow, advice is my specialty. ... Is Willie afraid of heights? ... Why I ask is, during this pandemic, there's been a big push towards home improvements, because no one's going outside or anywhere. ... So, what I'm thinking is, we send Willie out on tour with a crew of roofers. ... Roofers by day and band by night. ... Or have Willie play solo while the band roofs. ... Breaks and lunch are a great time to get together and flesh out new tunes. ... Hoping you feel the excitement I'm feeling. ... I'm on the phone lining up roofing gigs as we speak. ...
 
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#26
Pings Bass said:
Seems like for $250=$333 per gig you could hire pros who could just show up and play with minimal rehearsal time. I know it's a gray area between pro and amateur, but for that kind of scratch I'd just hire pros and skip the weekend warriors. Send them the charts and give them a downbeat time.
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I've this this very talk with "Willie" before.
(It's all theoretical right now, because even if we wanted to rent a bare venue on our own, a big enough room to net that fee would cost way too much at 25% occupancy - if the venue owner would even go for it, and if enough people would risk it... But in other circumstances, we have the sound, the lights, and the stage sets to pull off a bare-room production...)
Maybe it's time for the next level of my band management / pro player education.
I realize I'm not sure where I'd go looking for pro players. I thought I was pretty well plugged into the local music scene, but maybe not.
I have profiles on every musician registry I know of in the area (and have been looking for players there too) but maybe there are resources I don't know about...
I've heard it said "pro's aren't on CraigsList" so OK - where are they?
 
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#28
ArtechnikA said:
I've this this very talk with "Willie" before.
(It's all theoretical right now, because even if we wanted to rent a bare venue on our own, a big enough room to net that fee would cost way too much at 25% occupancy - if the venue owner would even go for it, and if enough people would risk it... But in other circumstances, we have the sound, the lights, and the stage sets to pull off a bare-room production...)
Maybe it's time for the next level of my band management / pro player education.
I realize I'm not sure where I'd go looking for pro players. I thought I was pretty well plugged into the local music scene, but maybe not.
I have profiles on every musician registry I know of in the area (and have been looking for players there too) but maybe there are resources I don't know about...
I've heard it said "pro's aren't on CraigsList" so OK - where are they?
Click to expand...
In some markets pros are on CL. And some markets have a musicians' union you can call for a list (assuming you're prepared to pay scale for rehearsals and performances). The pros I know in Portland mostly just have informal networks.
 
#29
ArtechnikA said:
Generalised rant, not seeking advice...

Probably another covid casualty. Or maybe just clash of personalities, circumstances, and differing expectations...

Background: Willie Nelson spent fall and winter of 2019 settling on a lineup and rehearsing the show. We put on a free "shakedown cruise" show mid-February to an enthusiastic reception. Then the world shut down and we've drifted from one uncertainty to another.

Keys player was the first to bail. Well - he kinda fired himself when he admitted that he didn't want to learn the material and just wing it. Had a bunch of attitude besides so everybody was relieved to see him go. Then the harp player decided the world was too scary and retired from playing. Leaving us two players down with technically one show still booked.

Replaced keys guy with a guitar player who said "I've always wanted to play keys..." He's still not up to speed. Got a new harp player. He didn't want to learn the material either and decided the infrequent rehearsals didn't work with his day job schedule. Bailed.

Rhythm guitar guy was kinda just along for the ride and found many excuses to avoid rehearsal.

Finally Drummer Guy quit. Says band isn't progressing to his standards. We're just kinda in a holding pattern, trying to recruit players and get keys guy up to speed. Nobody is very motivated because it's clear nothing is happening before summer. Even 'Willie' is burned out on the project since it's 2 years of frustration for him and he thinks he'd just like to step back and write his own music.

Back to chicken and egg: Can't get quality players without paying gigs. Can't get gigs without pro-level players.

Gonna be a long dark winter...
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Yeah, it's tough right now..I do have a quick question however, are we talking about a band called Willie Nelson, or the real Willie Nelson?
 
#32
ArtechnikA said:
Yeah - I left some words out of the first line, and then got shut out of the edit window and couldn't fix it...
The band name is "Trigger - A Willie Nelson Tribute"
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Thanks for the update.

Do you all do any recording? I'm in two bands, one of which is working on CD releases, we put out two in the last year and should have another out early next year. They are out there on iTunes (not like they are selling like hot cakes or anything), but some of the tunes from each release have been downloaded.

Anyway, it's a good way to keep us connected until gigs open up.
 
#35
Shalto said:
It's the time for woodshedding over gigging. Rather than looking for gigs before they are likely to be available or trying to hold together ensembles without work for them it's probably good investment of time to just admit " we are on hold for live shows". Spend some extra time with your instrument and emerge a better player when the scene re-opens.
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So you would think.
3 of us mostly have that mindset - "Willie" has been doing Willie for 20 years, so he knows the stuff. I'm holding my own. Drummerguy was a pro for a while, and IMO has standards that are not commensurate with the current situation... But to be fair, I've been pretty frustrated with the other 3 as well - I'm just not ready to quit over it (I think there are some other issues as well...).

It's not a new issue (how hard can you push volunteers) but the Tribute concept adds another layer. I see posts here all the time to the effect "If somebody told me what I had to play I'd walk." And it is not small ensemble - with 6 players, there's a lot going on - everybody needs to stay in their lane and play their parts. Harp guy can't just wail like he can in a 4-piece blues jam. Keys guy can't hammer the left hand (that's me) and he can't hammer chords with the right hand (that's rhythm guitar). My job is pretty much R-5 and walkups. Not because that's all we _can_ play, but because that's how Willie's band does it, and we're selling the Willie Nelson Live experience. Jam band guys have a hard time sticking to the script. Keys guy wanted to sneak in a quote from "3rd Rock From the Sun" into one of our songs. That's a cool idea for a different project. If Willie didn't do it, we're not doing it. You may have the world's greatest improv riff on Bach, but if you're playing Brandenburg #3 in a chamber ensemble, it's just wrong...
 
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#36
dbsfgyd1 said:
...Do you all do any recording?
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Only for promotional use. We have recordings and videos on the website and ReverbNation page (see the sig...).

But it's a Tribute band - there is no original content. We sell the Live Show Experience.
If people want to listen to Willie, there's no lack of ways to hear the real Willie...
 
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#39
ArtechnikA said:
So you would think.
3 of us mostly have that mindset - "Willie" has been doing Willie for 20 years, so he knows the stuff. I'm holding my own. Drummerguy was a pro for a while, and IMO has standards that are not commensurate with the current situation... But to be fair, I've been pretty frustrated with the other 3 as well - I'm just not ready to quit over it (I think there are some other issues as well...).

It's not a new issue (how hard can you push volunteers) but the Tribute concept adds another layer. I see posts here all the time to the effect "If somebody told me what I had to play I'd walk." And it is not small ensemble - with 6 players, there's a lot going on - everybody needs to stay in their lane and play their parts. Harp guy can't just wail like he can in a 4-piece blues jam. Keys guy can't hammer the left hand (that's me) and he can't hammer chords with the right hand (that's rhythm guitar). My job is pretty much R-5 and walkups. Not because that's all we _can_ play, but because that's how Willie's band does it, and we're selling the Willie Nelson Live experience. Jam band guys have a hard time sticking to the script. Keys guy wanted to sneak in a quote from "3rd Rock From the Sun" into one of our songs. That's a cool idea for a different project. If Willie didn't do it, we're not doing it. You may have the world's greatest improv riff on Bach, but if you're playing Brandenburg #3 in a chamber ensemble, it's just wrong...
Click to expand...

I hear you on the tensions of what you can ask from a volunteer. It's a similar situation in voluntary worship teams. There is a tension between wanting good standards and asking people to put quite a lot of time aside to learn the music, when they have other demands like kids and paid work.

I guess for bands as business a lot comes down to how big a market of players you have. In some parts of the world it's easier to find a player willing to learn the part properly than others. "How replaceable is the player only putting in a moderate effort?"... is a question confident many a band asks itself.
 
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