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Band wants to add 3rd guitarist

S

Sixpack324

Guest
Jan 10, 2012
296
101
New Jersey
#1
So I get a phone call last night from one of the guitarists in my band. He explains to me that the other guitarist is worried that we sound hollow when the two guitarists play harmonized solo's. Our band consists of:

Singer
Guitarist 1
Guitarist 2
Bass
Drums

We only have 1 or 2 songs out of 15 that have harmonized solo's. I agree that we sound thin during these solo's, but I don't like the idea of 3 guitarists. The guitarist that called me is on the fence about adding a guitarist and I'll find out the rest of the band's opinions on Sunday at rehearsal.

Before anyone goes there.....we actually DON'T have volume wars at rehearsal....Everyone is pretty good at controlling volumes so a volume war isn't on my list of con's to adding a 3rd guitarist. Money isn't an issue either. We're an original band, we're all in our late 30's and 40's with professional jobs and income, so we don't do this for the money.

My concerns are:
1 The sound. It seems to me that adding a 3rd guitarist will mud-up the overall sound of the band. I don't want to be involved with a 'wall-of-sound' sounding band.

2 The music. Some of our guitar music is intricate. I'm not saying it can't be replicated by 3 guitarists, but it's going to take a lot of extra work. This extra work isn't worth it to me just so we don't sound thin for a total of 1 minute and 45 seconds during fifteen songs' worth of material.

3 I didn't form this band....Actually....I was the last member to join. But, when I joined, I had my reservations about joining a band with two guitarists. It's never been my thing, but I like the music they had written and since joining, I love the music we write together. Two guitarists I can live with, as I knew there were two from the start, but now....

What say you, TalkBass? Would you be on-board with this idea?
 
#2
I don't see why any band needs 3 guitarists...

-Maybe you can play some powerchords (with fuzz) during those harmonized solo pieces to make up for the loss of "guitar noise"?
-Or get a keyboard/synth player to thicken the sounds? (think a key player could add more than a 3th guitarist)
 
#3
IMO three guitarists are too many for a band. It's just overkill. Not too mention one more person to split the money with and one more ego to deal with. I have been playing for several years in a band with only one guitar. I have found that I have to play a little busier during solos to help fill in the dead space. Tell your band mates you would like to be the one to fill in the sonic space instead of another guitar. Try adding an effect such as chorus during these empty spots to help fill in the sound more.
 
#4
gjbassist said:
IMO three guitarists are too many for a band. It's just overkill. Not too mention one more person to split the money with and one more ego to deal with. I have been playing for several years in a band with only one guitar. I have found that I have to play a little busier during solos to help fill in the dead space. Tell your band mates you would like to be the one to fill in the sonic space instead of another guitar. Try adding an effect such as chorus during these empty spots to help fill in the sound more.
Click to expand...


+1

The more people in the band, the less each one should play to keep it from turning into a wall of mud. Almost every guitarist I know overplays. In a 3 piece, you can get away with overplaying. A 4 piece (2 guitars) can work if they can work together and not try to do it all. With 3 guitars, there's just too much potential for it to devolve into noise. And they will start to look at the bass player as being the problem. At least one of them will adjust their tone to the point where they are stepping into bass territory, and then blame the bass player when it doesn't sound good.

I play in a band with 2 guitarists. One of them also plays the keys, so we avoid a lot of the problems. When they're both going on guitar, it can get pretty thick. I have to simplify when they're both playing guitar.
 
#5
I've played in bands where TWO guitarists were overkill (LOL). But, a musician knows when not to play. Just because the person is there, does not mean they need to be "muddying up" the sound every song.
If you can find someone with a musical ear who knows what, when and where to play, it could improve your sound.
Audition carefully, and don't settle, IMO.
 
#9
The band I'm in now originally started out with 3 guitar players. It is waaay overkill. One of them ended up quitting, which ended up being a good thing. For one thing, when writting music, trying to get three guitar players to agree is borderline impossible. It just ends up being way too much of the same range and timbre and gets so you can't identify anything. I can't say if it's right for you or not because I don't know what kind of music you guys play. I also don't think a second bass player is the answer. My advice to you is to change what you're doing as a bass player during these parts to fill in the void. I find when our guitar players are doing a harmonized solo, something in the middle range of the bass rounds the sound out nicely. If that doesn't work, have the drummer do some stuff to fill it in sonicly. If that doesn't work, and they are hell bent on adding another person to the mix, I would add a keyboard player. We talk sporadicly about adding a keyboard player because a lot of stuff that we think about adding as a cover has keys in it, but haven't done it because it's another mind to try to get to agree while writing. That's my $.02.
 
#10
IMO, there is no arbitrary limit to the number of any instrument that should be in a band. Three guitarists can work wonderfully, or it can be pointless noise. From your post it sounds like you fear the noise more than you look forward to the extra harmonic options and melodic roles, so make that clear to your bandmates and use arguments that have their basis in the music you play rather than in the typical rock'n'roll conventions.

I hope it works out for you.

Martin
 
#13
gjbassist said:
IMO three guitarists are too many for a band. It's just overkill. Not too mention one more person to split the money with and one more ego to deal with. I have been playing for several years in a band with only one guitar. I have found that I have to play a little busier during solos to help fill in the dead space. Tell your band mates you would like to be the one to fill in the sonic space instead of another guitar. Try adding an effect such as chorus during these empty spots to help fill in the sound more.
Click to expand...


This alone is enough for me, plus having one more person with conflicting schedules..... I wouldn't do it... but that's me...
 
#15
That sounds like a lot of trouble to go through just to make some sections of a couple of songs sound less thin, but there's nothing wrong with it on principle, as long as you can afford to pay all of them. A lot of mainstream country or pop acts will have as many as four guitarists on tour, as will rappers when they do big shows with live bands. Barry White used to have numerous guitarists in his orchestra at times many decades ago, and they all played very little even when all put together. Now, if you aren't making any money it will probably be hard to get them to exercise restraint...

Then again, if they just want to harmonize leads, maybe you should harmonize with them also instead of playing a bassline. That's a pretty fusiony thing to do, I guess, but I've seen Asleep At The Wheel's bassist double the last few measures of fiddle solos at times so it can work in other styles... It'll sound thin but three-part harmony leads will be pretty special so that might make it "OK".
 
#16
I once played bass in a band with three guitar players and they all sucked! Never again!!!

Being a guitar player as well as a bass player, I LOVE playing in a "Power Trio" format where I have lots of lattitude and space to intersperse some cool bass riffs right in with the lead guitar and high-energy drummer. I especially like it when both the drummer and guitarist are top notch and are pushing me!

Having a second guitar allows you to lay back some, not have to keep it up to "10" all the time and wear yourself out after the third or fourth song in the set, LOL!

My current band has two guitars and I had some initial reservations but they play pretty well off of each other and allows the drummer and myself to be the rhythm section. Sometimes it feels like a power trio with an additional guitar and I still get to get all "John Entwistle" and "Jack Casady" every once in a while! :D

What I would do if I were in your predicament is to bring a recorder to rehearsal so you can listen to some of these songs and the passages that are supposedly too "Thin." In doing so, everyone can evaluate what they are doing, what they are contributing, and what needs to change! Perhaps the drummer could ride a cymbal or perhaps you need to step up and take over the "Rhythm Guitar" role when they are doing the "Twin Lead" thing or perhaps the twin lead sounds crappy and sloppy and they need to evaluate what they are doing?

Also, it should be remembered that stuff starts to sound too "Thin" and "Empty" when people overplay their instruments and their playing does not compliment everything else around them! The old adage "Less is More" is something that always needs to be considered! I notice this even when I am just playing my acoustic guitar and realize that a simpler picking pattern works far better than trying to be Lindsey Buckingham!
 
#17
Oddly enough, my band has recently been going through a bit of a situation with one of our guitarists - long story short, he may either have to quit or we may have to drop him because of consistent scheduling conflicts. Anyways, we did a rehearsal recently without him (which left my one guitarist to cover everything on his own) and we surprisingly sounded AMAZING. There was no more mud, we could hear everyone clearly, we all had more space to fill and could play slightly more complex parts, and it felt like we somehow had more energy.

Personally, I don't blame you for wanting to to hold off on getting a third guitarist because, IME's, less is more with a band. What you should try to do is play chords during their solos, or perhaps add a bass boost or some sort of drive pedal to those parts. Try that out before you add another member.
 
#18
Three guitarists can work, but it will require serious work on the arrangements. One of my favorite bands, Counting Crows, has three guitarists. You can tell when you see them live that they've worked on the arrangements and instrumentation to avoid stepping all over each other.

That beings said, if the concern is sounding "thin" in some parts of songs, why not add a key board player. Harmonically it'll be easier to add into the songs and it'll give the band a lot more flexibility.
 
#19
Its amazes me every day how much a Big Muff or Muff variant can serve this purpose of filling up empty sonic space. I specified the Muff because I've used other fuzzes and OD's that seemed to have other uses (OD being to just strengthen the bass, gated fuzz... i still dontk now why i bought that.) Anyway, the Muff pedals do a good job of keeping all of your fundamental bass so you still serve your role as a bassist, and the fuzz on the treble side sort of sits underneath the guitars, between the bass and guitar, so when the guitars start harmonizing up real high you still hold a mid-treb rhythm. Pretty much sounds like having a guitarist playing power chords thru distortion along with your bassline.

If you're trying to keep a clean bass sound, then Chorus or Octave could be your friend.

I'm a big effect junkie, and for that reason won't even play in a band with 2 guitarists anymore. I just can't get any consistent enjoyment out of being the "sit in the corner and know your role" bass player.
 
#20
In the past two months I joined and left a band with three guitarists.
What a mess.
I can see if one would double on other instruments like keys or percussion, even sing but it would turn into a wank war. Two GP's would play the same thing and the third would try and play along with the bass line.
The extra BS involved made things even worse.
Live & learn, I will never even consider it again.
 

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