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Band wants to go "ampless" ?!?

#61
N=1, but having forgotten to put an IEM back in and thus, starting to play with only one, I can assure you that the IEM that was in fact in was an earplug and no longer a monitor. Wearing 1 most definitely requires you to turn up higher than you would with both in. Makes sense when you think about having a 20db cut with one in and getting an ear full of music in the open ear; you need to turn the IEM up. Bad idea for hearing preservation.

Sting also plays with one IEM, but I doubt he, nor any pro wearing one, will listen to an audiologist's advice.

U2 was all amp-less/IEM this tour and sounded great.
 
#62
Question for the no amps on stage guys - what are your guitarists doing for a preamp? A drummer I know is trying to switch to IEM and his guitarist, a former road seasoned pro, won't give up his Marshall. Just use the amp head and DI that?

Also, I watched a local act a few weeks ago and the subs seemed to give a fair rumble without being >95db in the bar with a 2x10 bass amp that was mic'd, so I would think the on/near stage subs would make up for any bass amp rumble. Is that not correct?
 
#65
s0c9 said:
That is the WORST thing you can do with IEM's... because...you TURN UP the IEM in your ear to match (compensate for) the external volume you are hearing in your non-IEM ear - never mind the delay you mention and other artifacts. Doing that WILL DAMAGE your hearing over time.. Google it.. read what the experts say about it!. Take them BOTH out if you are going to remove one.. your ears will thank you later on!

IME - If you can't hear the drums in your ears then you are getting a crappy mix. Mostly I have the drum channels turned off - only kick/snare active - because even with a drum shield/cage they are so freaking loud and I can hear them THRU my buds, as I stand next to them at church.

EDIT: listen to the mix in @BassCliff's video below... this is typical of what I hear at church - prevalent drums - before I adjust my mix to bring in other instruments.
BassCliff w/Arnie Newman Band @The Ranch 2/12-13/16
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Interesting... I read the articles, I guess it makes sense. It's so second nature to me I don't know if I turn up after I pull one out or not? I usually just have vocals (mostly lead) guitar, keys if we have them, my bass and kick drum. I would have said moderate volume if you had asked before reading this.

I'm playing again in two weeks, I'll check it out with both in and then just one. I really should bite the bullet, spend a little more time to get a good mix and keep them in. I'll have to brush up on my sign language.
 
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#66
TedH said:
Question for the no amps on stage guys - what are your guitarists doing for a preamp? A drummer I know is trying to switch to IEM and his guitarist, a former road seasoned pro, won't give up his Marshall. Just use the amp head and DI that?

Also, I watched a local act a few weeks ago and the subs seemed to give a fair rumble without being >95db in the bar with a 2x10 bass amp that was mic'd, so I would think the on/near stage subs would make up for any bass amp rumble. Is that not correct?
Click to expand...

There seem to be more amps that can go speakerless. Our guitar players use the following heads.
Peavey 6505 MH Mini Head with speakerless mode and direct out.
118738_30830.jpg

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and the other a Hughs & Kettner Tubemiester 18
Tubemeister18_Front.jpg

TM18_Head_Back.jpg


This way you can have an amp and a cab, or go speakerless completely. Normal tube amps will need to have a load attached to them. There may be power soak type devices that can act as a speaker load and direct out. Here is one.. [Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
and Mesa Boogie makes one too.. So you could use just about any head with these.. Mesa/Boogie Cabclone Speaker Cabinet Simulator - 8 ohm

Now I can see how metal or blues guitarists that use a lot of amp feedback may not be able to use something like this. But many could get by without a cabinet.
 
#67
s0c9 said:
Sorry..but that's complete hogwash... of COURSE YOU CAN!
You DO NOT HAVE TO HAVE a soundguy to run IEM !! (don't know where that idea came from but it's simply NOT true) :banghead:

We've been running our own IEM mixes for 2 yrs now.. digital console on stage, remote access/control using Android/iDevices thru router (housed in rack) with IEM xmitters in same rack. Light weight (relatively), coupled with stage box splitting to house for house PA.. doesn't matter where we play... IEM mix is the same.
NO house or FOH involvement in our IEM mixes at all..!!!
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I agree and Ditto for me but over 4 years new with my Mackie Dl1608 and Senn G3 system.
 
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#68
Attached is my rig. In a nutshell, I do both IEM and an amp on stage. It's a simple Carvin BX500 with a BFM Omni12. My pedals sit on top of the amp (always ON, so no need to be on the floor) and are housed in a small suitcase. If I want to go ampless, I just bring the suitcase. However, I like the added thump of an amp. Cabinet, head, pedal suitcase, and bass in Mono 80 gig bag makes for a 1 trip load in and out.
 

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#70
superflybass said:
That is not true my band does. and we get compliments on the mix all of the time !
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With the tech we have these days compared to the washing machine knobbed cinder block I started out with back in the day, I don't doubt at all that a great mix (with IEMs) is possible without a soundguy out front. We have built in room analysis in our presonus board and can lock and save mixes for specific rooms for future efficiency, but I have NEVER in my career worked without a FOH guy. I have no common point of reference.
 
#72
Scottkarch said:
Agree. Its an issue. But IMO more than made up for by its advantages. You could have 1 or 2 talking mics with a momentary foot switch that a band member could walk up to to talk only to the band. Or have an aggressive gate set on it. that is more mics and may be a pain. It isn't ha tbig a deal for us. I guess we've learned to lip read a bit. Its usually obvious by context what someone is saying. Or we say some just into the stage microphones.
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We run a stage mic that just goes to our IEM mix. Just a SM58. No need for fancy footswitches or gates, always on. It doesn't pick up enough ambient sound to be an issue, if anything may help bring some life to the IEM mix. Mainly our lead singer uses it to call out set list changes on the fly.
We are all IEM. I'm still bringing a cab, but realistically I could just turn it off. I pretty much use the cab as a backup in case of some kind of IEM failure. DI from GK MB Fusion 500. Guitar player is still using a mic'd amp to get his tone, but he's not 100% against running some cab emulation and going direct.
 
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#74
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Ok. For the first time we had no speakers on stage. I brought my RH450 head and the guitar players had their tube heads set to speakerless mode and we were all direct. My Sony earbuds sounded HUGE. The PA covered everything. I could feel the drums and my bass. But electronic drums and no amps. It was great. Setup and Teardown were faster than usual.

If you have a good IEM setup you can really make this work. I'm trying out a MXR d.i. Preamp pedal. It's powered by phantom power so I may be able to fit my "amp" in my jacket pocket.

It takes different hardware and a different mindset but if you're willing to make a few changes I think it works fantastic.

It was a very small bar but we had a riot and it was a great night.
 
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#77
Practice last night.. I used a borrowed MXR D.I.
M80.jpg

I really liked it. We play this coming Saturday night and I think it will be my bass amp. It's powered by phantom power through the DI cable. Sort of gives me 3 channels. bypass works just fine... it's my straight bass sound.. turn it on and I get the EQ added, and press the distortion channel and it adds a slight scoop and I dialed in just a touch of grit, not a lot. And if I'm careful with the levels, I can have all 3 settings with the same volume.

Practiced at our usual rehearsal basement through IEMs and it sounded great. I may bring my 210+212+head.... or I may just bring this pedal since we're silent on stage anyway and use the space to move around more.

I wish I could try a Sansamp VT DI to see if I like the modeling and distortion better... But honestly I think this will be great and I will probably be keeping it.
 
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#78
Just did a gig last night with a Rupert Neve DI into a Behringer X32 with 1964 A3's IEM's. That was totally awesome and I'd love to do that more often. The ipad control was neat to have and fairly intuitive. Did take me a while to figure out levels to the different instruments, but that is to be expected. Glad I had the chance, especially on a crowded stage.
 
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#79
Just ran a show that was ampless, but used some powered wedges for monitors. Drummer was using a Roland V-drum kit. Guitar and bass through racked pre-amps. Stage volume was low and mix was perfect. Received numerous complements from the audience about how good the sound was. Need to bite the bullet and move to IEMs (used them in my last band and enjoyed them), but without an individual mix for each member, it's not that great (only have one channel and no one is thrilled when we have to use them).
 

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