Band wants to go "ampless" ?!?

[kenneffdupriest]

We’re acclimated to air moving on stage and the vibration that comes with it so IEMs are strange the first few times, kinda like Thai food but then you get your mix down and your like wow this yellow curry is the bomb.

First time your percussionist will say “I can’t do this” or “we shud have done this sooner”

Prolly a third of my musical life has been a chitty monitor mix. I learned to adapt and overcome. Earplugs were my vocal monitor and I’ve never had a problem hearing the kick/snare. IEM’s make it a level playing field and a clean stage gives you mondo running room. The best part is the guitarist gets to hear nothing but himself if he likes.

 

[Fingerpickingood]

I remember when I was younger and thought like that.
I have an Ampeg cab that weighs 167 lbs and used to lift it into the back of my pickup all by myself.
I don't lift it at all anymore.

Not saying it's wrong to lug a big rig around. Play what you like.
Just think again about that last sentence. Take care of your spine. Trust an old geezer on this one.

I'm rocking either a mini micro rig of doom or a sansamp these days.

Yes, sir!!! Hahaha, I actually go to fairly great lengths to take care of my body (nutrition, fitness regimen, etc.). I have a VERY labor intensive job, and I must protect my livelihood!!! Luckily for me, fantastic genetics have coupled with years of heavy labor and athletics to make me a very strong fellow. I figure I should take advantage of it while I can. Love my Eden!!!

 

[Spent]

I once was accused of being too loud. I stood there, not playing, arms above my head. They finally realized it was the gtr player going for maximum chug.... I hate that.

Same here. Did it during a sound check once. The guitarist turned to me and said it sounds good. I said "yeah, you guys sound good." I want to be heard, not just perceived. /derail

 

[BassikLee]

Yep, the good news is that Peavey just came out with an 18" guitar subwoofer. That'll surely help....

 

[guy n. cognito]

I dream of the day I find a band with modern equipment sufficient to allow for an actual IEM setup.

 

[Relsom]

I have fairly severe hearing loss and my bandmates thankfully are big on dynamics and keeping stage volume fairly low. Still, a 7 piece Allman Bros, Little Feat, Santanaesque cover band can get fairly loud. I can usually get along with a decent set of plugs ( I use Earasers) or just turning off my aids. I bought a set of the Carvin IEMs and used a Rolls PM50s to mix the house send with my bass in an effort to preserve what hearing I have left. It worked only so-so as there was not enough isolation from the ambient levels for it to work effectively. I haven't been able to get them to consider all IEM's and ampless. Rambling........

 

[BassikLee]

What do you percieve those needs to be, equipment wise? My band uses a soundcraft ui16, I'm running direct. I've used both just a passive DI box, and a sansamp. They both have their merits. My IEM rig is a sennheiser.

 

[stettoman]

Someone mentioned hearing loss. Part of our situation is that our guitarist has moderate-but-pesky deafness in both ears, and we just fired a couple members who did the bulk of our vox, so with the reformation into the power trio we had to step up and sing. Our guitarist has a great voice, but his monitor mixes is insane loud and obnoxiously "him". So IEMS are a godsend in that regard. He's also a gearslut, has about 1 of every guitar rig out there. I guess I'll have to alert ya'll when the garage sale is....

 

[Jazz Ad]

I think iems are awesome if and only if you have a dedicated soundguy to adjust everything.
They unbearable if musiciens are to adjust it.

 

[trevcda]

What do you percieve those needs to be, equipment wise? My band uses a soundcraft ui16, I'm running direct.

FOH support. Not just a board capable of outputting the required mixes and a snake split, if you intend to be able to play on a provided house system. But having enough in the racks and stacks department to do it all. Most don't realize how different the FOH mix is with zero sound coming from the stage. Your FOH system now has to do all of the heavy lifting. Not a big deal as a touring band on large stages, as FOH was already covering it all. For a local bar band at 150 cap dive bar with no sound coming off the stage, the additional stress on the FOH system can be sizable. I tend to agree with the comments about needing a sound guy or at least someone who can listen out front and provide good feedback. At least at first. If the whole band understands that the volume wars are over and that any additional output needed on their instrument should be derived from the the aux send feeding their IEM mix and not by turning up their instrument at whatever system they're running it through, it will work well. They also need to be much more aware of how to edit each of their patches to normalize volume levels. Stock patches are designed to show off the unit. Very rarely do the work well in a band situation. It takes a lot of self control to get everything set up in rehearsal and leave it alone on the gig. Because now you're not only screwing up the FOH mix, but everyone's IEM mix as well.

 

[Bodeanly]

After taking some time off from gigging to do the "raising kids thing," there is nothing like having a bass amp pushing that poopie behind me. I ask for wedges whenever it's possible. And I realize that some of you may think that this is post about how I like my bass amp behind me to give me wedgies. All I ask is that you read it slower the next time.

 

[Bullitt5135]

My new band is ampless. The lead singer / rhythm guitar player owns a Behringer X32 with wired IEM setup and a Kemper profiler. Drummer uses Roland vDrums. I put my GK rig on the sidelines in favor of a SansAmp VT Bass Deluxe DI. The lead guitarist is the last hold out with a traditional amp. The singer says "parking lot to downbeat" takes less than 30 minutes. He also has the ability to multi-track record everything. The PA is controlled with the singers iPad, and the rest of us have the ability to control personal monitor mixes from our iPhones/Androids. We also run the FOH mains & subs at band practice, which adds a bit of thump that I can feel through my feet. All in all, it's a great arrangement that allows me to improve my personal performance.

I am really enjoying the IEM setup. The sound quality is a lot more like playing along with a CD than the old "everything blaring" monitor setup of my old band. It's a little weird hearing clear separation and articulation between the instruments for the first time (and clarity in my own bass tone). I purchased an inexpensive pair of earbuds from MEE Electronics, but I'll probably upgrade to 1964 Ears, assuming the band gets off the ground. I still need to work on dialing in my personal mix, but it's already night and day better than before. I'm still working on finding the sweet spot with my bass level that allows me to dig in a little bit (how I normally play) but still remain balanced with the monitor mix and FOH.

 

[lfmn16]

No disrespect to the people that are able to go ampless, but I like the sound and feel of an SVT and refrig on stage when I'm playing. If you are cool without an amp, more power to you. Just have a little patience for us dinosaurs that change a little more slowly.

 

[bikeplate]

If you're gonna go ampless you better have a nice set of in ears. Maybe even some custom molds.

 

[stettoman]

What trevcda said is VERY important to me, as we have played those dinky bars where it's decided to not even run bass guitar through the FOH, which creates problems of it's own with standing waves and phase issues and dead spots, issues I've learned over the years to control (to some small extent) from my rig. Now I'll be relinquishing any and all control, a trust issues to be sure. It's going to make our soundguy grow up in new and wonderful ways.

 

[stettoman]

If you're gonna go ampless you better have a nice set of in ears. Maybe even some custom molds.

Well, our guitarist picked up a Shure PSM 300, and I just dropped 800 bucks for another. I tried his with a set of Westone dual driver buds, and it was an amazing test drive. It was with his mix though, and I could have eq'd it better for me...

 

[therealting]

You can get a vibrating floor mat to stand on when using IEMs, makes a HUGE difference to the feel of your playing.

 

[RJC1811]

My two bands are old school with amps and monitors. In one we keep a great balance and comfortable volume levels, the other the guitarist tends to push the volume up but not to insane levels. It works.

At church I use wired IEM's and it's hard to get used to. I feel like I'm isolated. Almost like being at a party with everyone wearing headphones. I usually play with one ear out so I can hear the live drums. Sometimes it's tough because there is a little delay in the reflected FOH sound so you are getting something different in each ear.

 

[wmhill]

If the amps went, I'd be right out the door behind em. For me part of the enjoyment of playing is hearing & feeling the amps on stage, so to isolate myself from that would be no good. I have a small powerful lightweight rig (tecamp puma900/S212 cab) and that is perfect for what i'm doing.

 

[s0c9]

I usually play with one ear out so I can hear the live drums. Sometimes it's tough because there is a little delay in the reflected FOH sound so you are getting something different in each ear.

That is the WORST thing you can do with IEM's... because...you TURN UP the IEM in your ear to match (compensate for) the external volume you are hearing in your non-IEM ear - never mind the delay you mention and other artifacts. Doing that WILL DAMAGE your hearing over time.. Google it.. read what the experts say about it!. Take them BOTH out if you are going to remove one.. your ears will thank you later on!

IME - If you can't hear the drums in your ears then you are getting a crappy mix. Mostly I have the drum channels turned off - only kick/snare active - because even with a drum shield/cage they are so freaking loud and I can hear them THRU my buds, as I stand next to them at church.

EDIT: listen to the mix in @BassCliff's video below... this is typical of what I hear at church - prevalent drums - before I adjust my mix to bring in other instruments.
BassCliff w/Arnie Newman Band @The Ranch 2/12-13/16