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Bankruptcy or Bailout? You decide...
- Thread starter Johnny Fila
- Start date
I understand the principle of it ... however it doesn't work .. By the government doing it it makes these banks or whatever say "hey its ok if we screw up the government will bail us out" and thats not a good thing
I live on Long Island and a correction of housing prices is desperately needed here. 4 years ago my buddies were all going for their no money down supermarket mortgages, borrowing $500,000 to buy a 2 bedroom small house in Nassau County. Owning a home was attractive to me but I could never fathom that these small houses they were buying were worth that much money, it seemed utterly ridiculous even under the "real estate is a real investment" argument and knowing that I could get a much bigger house and 3 times the yard a couple of hours west or North for half the money.
Well, I'm sorry. But now their houses are dropping and there mortgages are double and it's terrible for them. Some got out in time, some are roughing out the storm, but I vote bankrupcy!
A correction is sorely needed and we cannot reward these business's for their irresponsibility.
Well, I'm sorry. But now their houses are dropping and there mortgages are double and it's terrible for them. Some got out in time, some are roughing out the storm, but I vote bankrupcy!
A correction is sorely needed and we cannot reward these business's for their irresponsibility.
I voted bankruptcy, however, before reading that piece I would have voted for a bailout. I live in the NY suburbs but I work in the city as a new hire at a company in the luxury sector. Usually, high end luxury does ok in times like these, however, 100% of our customer base are affluent women, and their husbands are telling them not to shop. This is a problem.
But at the same time, if the long term benefits of "teaching them a lesson" outweight the short term, then I guess I can go along with that... mostly because I live with my parents.
I gotta say though, I'm not looking forward to what this will do to Manhattan. We're going to lose billions in revenue when brokers and the others on wall street stop spending or move. While they're a fraction of the population, they represent the majority of taxation and discretional spending. A really good illustration of this is the side-by-side BMW and Mercedes dealerships in the Financial District, strategically located to suck in guys with a fresh bonus burning a hole through their Burberry suits. The Times or NY magazine reported on this last week, I'll see if I can find it and edit this post, for nothing else than to back up the above. It's not just the city and Long Island that will hurt, but Jersey City, Connecticut, and the like will all feel this a bit.
Edit: Found it, or if not the article, something close: http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/09/15/bloomberg-and-aides-meet-on-banking-crisis/
I feel for the people that will lose their homes, I can't imagine the heartbreak of such a thing, but I thought I'd throw a light on the people being vilified. Did Wall Street act imprudently? Yup. But we must remember that there is literally an army of people that will be touched by this: doormen, delivery services, restaurants, theater--basically anyone in the service industry.
One of the things bothering me is that the pundits throw around the quip that "what's good for wall st isn't good for main st," and I'd like to point out that I have a main street too. New York City has many main streets and they're going to hurt. Does warrant a 700 billion dollar pay out from everyone else? No. But I think I'm a little sensitive, having lived in and around Manhattan for my life, to the far far right wing referring to the City as evil, the new Babylon, etc. I even took a course in that kind of thing. There are just as many people in this city that didn't mess with someone's money a la Boiler Room. Let's not start the whole Small Town vs. Big City Liberal thing. That's so Decision 2004.
Is this thread political? if so I retract my statement and I was never here.
Yup. Regardless of how they try to spin this thing, me and you will pay this out of our pockets.
When Black Friday comes
I'll stand down by the door
And catch the grey men when they
Dive from the fourteenth floor
When Black Friday comes
I'll collect everything I'm owed
And before my friends find out
I'll be on the road
When Black Friday falls you know it's got to be
Don't let it fall on me
When Black Friday comes
I'll fly down to Muswellbrook
Gonna strike all the big red words
From my little black book
Gonna do just what I please
Gonna wear no socks and shoes
With nothing to do but feed
All the kangaroos
When Black Friday comes I'll be on that hill
You know I will
When Black Friday comes
I'm gonna dig myself a hole
Gonna lay down in it 'til
I satisfy my soul
Gonna let the world pass by me
The Archbishop's gonna sanctify me
And if he don't come across
I'm gonna let it roll
When Black Friday comes
I'm gonna stake my claim
I'll guess I'll change my name
I know there will be hell to pay, but I think that maybe a little hell is the only thing that will even begin to teach some of these jokers out there who've been acting like they've been playing with Monopoly money all this time that this isn't ******* monopoly. I don't think anybody should step in and catch the gray men when they dive from the 14th floor this time. Probably horrible of me, but there it is.
I'll stand down by the door
And catch the grey men when they
Dive from the fourteenth floor
When Black Friday comes
I'll collect everything I'm owed
And before my friends find out
I'll be on the road
When Black Friday falls you know it's got to be
Don't let it fall on me
When Black Friday comes
I'll fly down to Muswellbrook
Gonna strike all the big red words
From my little black book
Gonna do just what I please
Gonna wear no socks and shoes
With nothing to do but feed
All the kangaroos
When Black Friday comes I'll be on that hill
You know I will
When Black Friday comes
I'm gonna dig myself a hole
Gonna lay down in it 'til
I satisfy my soul
Gonna let the world pass by me
The Archbishop's gonna sanctify me
And if he don't come across
I'm gonna let it roll
When Black Friday comes
I'm gonna stake my claim
I'll guess I'll change my name
I know there will be hell to pay, but I think that maybe a little hell is the only thing that will even begin to teach some of these jokers out there who've been acting like they've been playing with Monopoly money all this time that this isn't ******* monopoly. I don't think anybody should step in and catch the gray men when they dive from the 14th floor this time. Probably horrible of me, but there it is.
How I love that song.
I actually "hooked up" because of that song. Back when my ears were younger [and I was dumber], I was blasting the heck out of that song out of my walkman, and that Baxter ripp'n guitar could be heard from near and far. A hottie could not help but ask me what I was listening to, and the rest is history.
=============
They got libertarians working at Harvard?
=============
And I didn't vote. We still don't have enough data.
What complex derivatives that may still be outstanding boggle the mind.
Edit: Yes, I can and will proudly vote, "I don't know".
If I find that I've gone 40 miles down the wrong road in the opposite direction of where I want to go on a car trip what's a better strategy? To stop and get directions or just keep barrelling down the highway hoping to find the way?
I also think that a bailout sends a bad message (prescendent). It basically says that you don't need to be financially responsible, the gov't will bail you out. This applies to banks as well as individuals who were living beyond their means.
If the bank is collapsing, they handled the business poorly, likely due to greed. If you are losing your house and blinged out Escalade, you really couldn't afford it to begin with.
Now, there are going to be some innocent victims in the whole thing; however, at this point in the situation, I think that is no longer avoidable.
Later
Rob
If the bank is collapsing, they handled the business poorly, likely due to greed. If you are losing your house and blinged out Escalade, you really couldn't afford it to begin with.
Now, there are going to be some innocent victims in the whole thing; however, at this point in the situation, I think that is no longer avoidable.
Later
Rob
If folks read either one of these before voting, I bet most would vote a heck of a lot differently.
I definitely hear that. Both neighbors on either side of me are trying to sell (for reasons other than the market) and they're just asking too much. They both want something like 1.2m (which wasn't crazy for the nice parts of south shore nassau 3 years ago), but the houses are total tear downs and they're just gonna sit on the market. It's a shame, I want them outa there.
I definitely hear that. Both neighbors on either side of me are trying to sell (for reasons other than the market) and they're just asking too much. They both want something like 1.2m (which wasn't crazy for the nice parts of south shore nassau 3 years ago), but the houses are total tear downs and they're just gonna sit on the market. It's a shame, I want them outa there.
it's a terrible mess here isn't it. A developer built town homes on the main road in my area and they were asking 1.2 mill a year ago. Town homes. They are now under 500,000 and I still wouldn't look. 2 years ago, a real estate person I know told me there were 92 houses for sale in Oyster Bay alone, now there are way more for sale signs and people are still way over-priced. As horrible as it sounds, I'm hoping to snap something up when this whole thing completely bottoms out in a year or so.
Perhaps.
The problem is that the people who are universally praising the bailout as the only hope for avoiding a catastrphic meltdown are mostly pundits, editors, and economics reporters. I haven't read much positive from serious economists.
What happens when they spend $700 billion and in three weeks or months the credit markets sieze up again? By some estimates, there are many trillions of dollars involved.
