Enjoy the benefits of a premium membership!
Upgrade Account
-
TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
Join free Log in
Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.
Baroque
- Thread starter Matthew_84
- Start date
Love/hate with Glenn Gould. Loved his playing, hated his humming.
I can tell you that the [Invalid or Expired Link Removed] typically uses six strings, the later French users favoured 7 (added low A string on the bass)
Earliest Gamba strings were all natural gut, but the bass ones got to be huge bridge cables. The big breakthrough was when they figured out how to add metal to increase the mass - first spiraled wires twisted with the gut and later outer windings like we know today. Typically the top three (or 4) are pure gut, and the bottom two ( or three) are wire-wrapped.
The French took the dive into 7-strings after the advent of the wire-wound bass string
The strings do "stretch a little"*, and they generally don't last too long - gut strings are really sensitive to humidity.
* The old saying is that Viol da Gamba groups generally spend more time tuning, than actually playing...
Sonically, most people feel that a Viol da gamba doesn't have any advantage over the cello: its sound is comparatively reedy, and it can't get nearly as loud. That hasn't stopped legions of gambists from making beautiful music with it, though!
There was a "contra-bass" gamba called the violone. (scale length like a modern 'double-bass')
Here is the generally accepted range of scale lengths for the different Viols:
So, it's a kind of old school guitar players?
D
Deleted member 165050
Guest
6 strings and frets, what can I say...
D
Deleted member 165050
Guest
The French took the dive into 7-strings after the advent of the wire-wound bass string
You just pre-empted the "what's the best viola da gamba for metal" question
D
Deleted member 165050
Guest
The progression of baroque music:
(apologies for a slight derail!)
(apologies for a slight derail!)
I can tell you that the [Invalid or Expired Link Removed] typically uses six strings, the later French users favoured 7 (added low A string on the bass)
Earliest Gamba strings were all natural gut, but the bass ones got to be huge bridge cables. The big breakthrough was when they figured out how to add metal to increase the mass - first spiraled wires twisted with the gut and later outer windings like we know today. Typically the top three (or 4) are pure gut, and the bottom two ( or three) are wire-wrapped.
The French took the dive into 7-strings after the advent of the wire-wound bass string
The strings do "stretch a little"*, and they generally don't last too long - gut strings are really sensitive to humidity.
* The old saying is that Viol da Gamba groups generally spend more time tuning, than actually playing...
Sonically, most people feel that a Viol da gamba doesn't have any advantage over the cello: its sound is comparatively reedy, and it can't get nearly as loud. That hasn't stopped legions of gambists from making beautiful music with it, though!
There was a "contra-bass" gamba called the violone. (scale length like a modern 'double-bass')
Here is the generally accepted range of scale lengths for the different Viols:
View attachment 2977610[/QUOTE
Thank you for that detailed description. My experience listening to the Gamba is limited to recordings (mostly Bach) and Lucianas performances on You Tube. Seems to me the Gamba can "self accompany" through the use of double or multiple finger stops. The performances from Luciana are "wanting" nothing.
Worth noting that even Bach's interpretations changed over the years. Also, whether you were French or Italian, for instance, affected your interpretations.
I absolutely love classical music. I recall as a kid hearing Eric Carmen’s “All By Myself” and thinking, “Wow! That guy should be a composer!” not knowing Rachmaninov was much of the music in the song.
Upon learning that, I immersed myself in Rachmaninov... then Tchaikovsky... then Rimsky-Kosakov... and you get the picture.
40+ years later I have moreorless settled in on my favorites with respect to all. I still love the Russian composers for their force and power (Rimsky-Kirsakov), Rachmaninov (I’m still sweet on Piano Concerto #2 [esp the second movement]), but in the past 20 years I’ve gone crazy over 19th French composers like Ravel (my favorite - Daphnis and Chloe... stunning!!!!), Delibes, Debussy, Satie.
The music is so expressive, so beautiful, so unusual and often so wonderfully arranged that it is breathtaking.
Ravel’s “Daybreak” literally sounds like daybreak; you can almost see the sky lightening on the edges as the music swells and falls; the first glint of daylight over the distant hills, the air vibrating with promise, warning as the music continues building until daylight has broken and scatters. It’s almost too much.
Or Delibes often heard aria from “Lakme.” The beautiful voices intertwining and weaving with this amazing space between them. You can once again almost see the women in the music gliding together like cool breezes above the water, moonlight on the leaves, a jasmine scent in the air. Incredible.
I’ve got to go... beauty awaits!
Upon learning that, I immersed myself in Rachmaninov... then Tchaikovsky... then Rimsky-Kosakov... and you get the picture.
40+ years later I have moreorless settled in on my favorites with respect to all. I still love the Russian composers for their force and power (Rimsky-Kirsakov), Rachmaninov (I’m still sweet on Piano Concerto #2 [esp the second movement]), but in the past 20 years I’ve gone crazy over 19th French composers like Ravel (my favorite - Daphnis and Chloe... stunning!!!!), Delibes, Debussy, Satie.
The music is so expressive, so beautiful, so unusual and often so wonderfully arranged that it is breathtaking.
Ravel’s “Daybreak” literally sounds like daybreak; you can almost see the sky lightening on the edges as the music swells and falls; the first glint of daylight over the distant hills, the air vibrating with promise, warning as the music continues building until daylight has broken and scatters. It’s almost too much.
Or Delibes often heard aria from “Lakme.” The beautiful voices intertwining and weaving with this amazing space between them. You can once again almost see the women in the music gliding together like cool breezes above the water, moonlight on the leaves, a jasmine scent in the air. Incredible.
I’ve got to go... beauty awaits!
- Apr 18, 2008
- 16,006
- 1
- 31,700
- Disclosures
- I'm highly opinionated and extremely self-assured
I’m right there with you! 19th-century and early 20th-century are my favorites, but those have little to do with Baroque music.
Regarding Rachmaninov, there was a fascinating CD released a decade or so ago - called “A Window In Time”, it is digitally recreated recordings of Rachmaninov performing his own works, via a collection of piano rolls. Great stuff, and a cool example of how modern technology can bring us delights that were previously thought to be lost to time. Amazon link here for convenience (not trying to endorse Amazon or anything): https://www.amazon.com/Window-Time-Rachmaninoff-Performs-Piano/dp/B000009RCS
As an Amazon Associate, TalkBass may receive commissions from qualifying purchases made via links on this site.
It's not the Baroque era but the Classical era - Mozart's Symphony #40 in e minor. I've played it, conducted it and wrote a thesis on it. I love Mozart in general.
Hello and thank you for sharing! I will check it out ASAP!
As an Amazon Associate, TalkBass may receive commissions from qualifying purchases made via links on this site.
I played clarinet in school. We played some semi-classical music, don't recall if any of it was baroque. My parents liked both kind of music: country and western, my peers liked both kinds of music: rock and roll, my school band experience broadened my tastes considerably. I'd listen to classical music on Wisconsin public radio.
But I didn't greatly note baroque music until college. I'm an engineer but I started at one of the UW's two year campuses. They had a music program but not enough music majors so I volunteered to help them by playing clarinet in their band. One day a second person walks into rehearsal with the conductor and proceeds to give us a sales pitch about singing in his choir.
Now I had seen the flyers begging for choir volunteers right next to the band flyers but since my entire singing career up to that point consisted of singing the bass parts of hymns next to my dad in a small Baptist church I considered myself unqualified. The choir director in his appeal said that if you can play in this band you can sing in my choir. I'm nothing if not willing to prove someone wrong so I show up at the next choir rehearsal.
They hand me a thick packet of music and by the end of the first rehearsal two things have happened: 1) I have started to learn the bass part of Vivaldi's Gloria, in Latin; 2) I have fallen in love with a cute alto, no no, that happened much later, I have fallen in love with Baroque music.
Ended up performing the Gloria in one Catholic church as a concert with a small string orchestra and some guest soloists and then two songs from the piece in another Catholic church for Mass one Sunday a few weeks later. It was a bit surreal for a young Baptist but it is also the reason I still sing in church choirs today and now play bass in the worship band too.
Currently my favorite alto and I attend about three concerts a year performed by Chicago's most excellent Music of the Baroque. I find it the most interesting musical period and if you listen carefully you can hear everything that has been done since. If I were exiled to some island and could have music from only one period it would be Baroque. If I could have the complete works of only one composer it would be Bach. If I could have only one piece, it would be Messiah.
People argue about the ancestry of the double bass. It looks more like the violin family but internally I've read that it has some features of the viol family. It's currently tuned like a viol but early ones had three strings tuned GDA. It's possible it is a hybrid.
There is a fifths tuning club here on TB if you who are trained on cello are interested. Some baritone guitars have 27 inch scales. Remove two strings and the frets and you are good to go!
But I didn't greatly note baroque music until college. I'm an engineer but I started at one of the UW's two year campuses. They had a music program but not enough music majors so I volunteered to help them by playing clarinet in their band. One day a second person walks into rehearsal with the conductor and proceeds to give us a sales pitch about singing in his choir.
Now I had seen the flyers begging for choir volunteers right next to the band flyers but since my entire singing career up to that point consisted of singing the bass parts of hymns next to my dad in a small Baptist church I considered myself unqualified. The choir director in his appeal said that if you can play in this band you can sing in my choir. I'm nothing if not willing to prove someone wrong so I show up at the next choir rehearsal.
They hand me a thick packet of music and by the end of the first rehearsal two things have happened: 1) I have started to learn the bass part of Vivaldi's Gloria, in Latin; 2) I have fallen in love with a cute alto, no no, that happened much later, I have fallen in love with Baroque music.
Ended up performing the Gloria in one Catholic church as a concert with a small string orchestra and some guest soloists and then two songs from the piece in another Catholic church for Mass one Sunday a few weeks later. It was a bit surreal for a young Baptist but it is also the reason I still sing in church choirs today and now play bass in the worship band too.
Currently my favorite alto and I attend about three concerts a year performed by Chicago's most excellent Music of the Baroque. I find it the most interesting musical period and if you listen carefully you can hear everything that has been done since. If I were exiled to some island and could have music from only one period it would be Baroque. If I could have the complete works of only one composer it would be Bach. If I could have only one piece, it would be Messiah.
People argue about the ancestry of the double bass. It looks more like the violin family but internally I've read that it has some features of the viol family. It's currently tuned like a viol but early ones had three strings tuned GDA. It's possible it is a hybrid.
There is a fifths tuning club here on TB if you who are trained on cello are interested. Some baritone guitars have 27 inch scales. Remove two strings and the frets and you are good to go!
Cool!
I thought this was about how things are sometimes the day before pay day.....
Seriously though, I have a CD from the Musical Heritage Society of nothing but music played with Lutes and ever since I have been astounded by them and how anyone can play one.
I thought this was about how things are sometimes the day before pay day.....
Seriously though, I have a CD from the Musical Heritage Society of nothing but music played with Lutes and ever since I have been astounded by them and how anyone can play one.
