Baroque

[Matthew_84]

I thought it would be nice to have a thread to just talk about this period of classical music.

Please feel free to share your favourite pieces, composers, as well as post any questions you may have regarding the theory and the compositions themselves.

As far as I can tell, this is one of the earlier instrumental pieces from this era. These were composed in 1605.

 

[bholder]

If it ain't baroque...

 

[Pug the Pig]

Handel and Geo. Phillip Telemann are a couple of my favourites... Handel had some brilliant 'tunes' going on...

 

[two fingers]

I love things that are both beautiful and simple. The simple melodies and harmonies of most baroque music have always been my favorite classical music by far. Sometimes when I'm working I will find baroque on YouTube or Google Play randomly. That and melodic jazz are my favorite "background music".

 

[Pug the Pig]

I always liked the 'Basso Continuo' idea with this period, a set bass line with figures that the accompanying harpsichord would 'realise' with scope for some improvisation, and that the bass parts could be taken by a number of differing instruments depending on what was available to the performers at any given time.
I had a brief dalliance with keyboard many years ago and got a very very basic grasp of the figured bass business, but its a complex (and interesting) subject.

 

[esa372]

I took a stab at Bach's "Little Fugue In G-Minor", with my Pentabuzz, a few years ago:



It was way outside of what I normally play, but it was fun, and I sure learned a lot!

 

[Matthew_84]

I always liked the 'Basso Continuo' idea with this period, a set bass line with figures that the accompanying harpsichord would 'realise' with scope for some improvisation, and that the bass parts could be taken by a number of differing instruments depending on what was available to the performers at any given time.
I had a brief dalliance with keyboard many years ago and got a very very basic grasp of the figured bass business, but its a complex (and interesting) subject.

I am actually very curious about the chordal improvisation aspect.

From what I understand, there were numbers on the sheet music to indicate when a chord would be played.

I’m assuming those were scale degrees numbers, but I’m guessing it would be more of a recommendation to have that scale degree in the chord somewhere (doesn’t have to be the root), and that chordal player could use a chord without that number if they thought it would be better?

 

[Matthew_84]

I took a stab at Bach's "Little Fugue In G-Minor", with my Pentabuzz, a few years ago:



It was way outside of what I normally play, but it was fun, and I sure learned a lot!

I actually watched this clip a lot about a year or two ago when I was hoping to get a fretless to play classical music with. You did a great job! I haven’t listened to it in a while (I’m just getting back into music from taking a long break), but I’ll definitely listen to again shortly.

Out of curiousity, was the bass tuned to BEADG?

 

[Pug the Pig]

I am actually very curious about the chordal improvisation aspect.

From what I understand, there were numbers on the sheet music to indicate when a chord would be played.

I’m assuming those were scale degrees numbers, but I’m guessing it would be more of a recommendation to have that scale degree in the chord somewhere (doesn’t have to be the root), and that chordal player could use a chord without that number if they thought it would be better?

Also compounded by the fact that there were 'conventions' at the time that were assumed and taken as understood, that you wouldn't necessarily be aware of 250 years later!
Much scholarship and research has been applied in the last 50 years with the advent of authentic / period instrument performance with excellent results.
If you're interested grab any keyboard some appropriate manuscript and experiment with figured bass. I'm sure there's lots online to get you going ( the internet didn't exist when I was looking at this !)

 

[Matthew_84]

Also compounded by the fact that there were 'conventions' at the time that were assumed and taken as understood, that you wouldn't necessarily be aware of 250 years later!
Much scholarship and research has been applied in the last 50 years with the advent of authentic / period instrument performance with excellent results.
If you're interested grab any keyboard some appropriate manuscript and experiment with figured bass. I'm sure there's lots online to get you going ( the internet didn't exist when I was looking at this !)

Interesting. I never really thought about it, but I’m curious what guidelines of music theory were then, compared to what they are today?

Not sure, if you or anyone else here would know that, but that would interest me a lot.

I have a feeling the guidelines may have been somewhat similar, but also stricter, and they loosened up over time after later composers pushed the boundaries and played dissonant and non-diatonic notes, and made beautiful music with them.

 

[Pug the Pig]

The average accompanist on the harpsichord would be expected to be able to provide a workable continuo piece from a simple figured bass part, sometimes just the bare bass part alone without any further guidance was all.
There was more scope for individual invention than people would nowadays think...., always bearing in mind, it existed within the boundaries of taste and convention that prevailed then...if you got too dissonant and leery your wealthy patron would probably have you thrown out in the mud!!

 

[bholder]

I took a stab at Bach's "Little Fugue In G-Minor", with my Pentabuzz, a few years ago:



It was way outside of what I normally play, but it was fun, and I sure learned a lot!

That's amazing! I want to learn the cello suite #1, too, definitely adding this to the list! (Thanks for showing your left hand so clearly.)

 

[bassliner50]

JS Bach of course. He even contributed to the tempered tuning of keyboard instruments so we can choose from 12 keys to compose or perform in. Prolific with profound creations, we can enjoy his well documented library of music today. I find baroque music usually packed with ornamentation. Clearly if Johann were alive and active in the present, his no BS attitude toward music would demand a Precision bass when a viola da gamba is not available.

Here is a non-baroque piece but the "bass" line infers the baroque era. notice the lack of vibrato in the vocal. So pure.

 

[Clef_de_fa]

Interesting. I never really thought about it, but I’m curious what guidelines of music theory were then, compared to what they are today?

Not sure, if you or anyone else here would know that, but that would interest me a lot.

I have a feeling the guidelines may have been somewhat similar, but also stricter, and they loosened up over time after later composers pushed the boundaries and played dissonant and non-diatonic notes, and made beautiful music with them.

A lot of figured bass were used to chart the harpsichord line. Since the harpsichord doesn't have any sustain they just wrote the figured bass and let the player do his thing but what was played was conventionnal. Saddly nothing is really sure but I bet it was 16th line or 8th discribing the chords and the movement of all the voices.

One thing is sure, they didn't write all the rythm like we do today. They used flourish so reading was a lot easier than reading a poopie ton of 16th.

 

[micguy]

I assumed Baroque was a high class way of saying ran out of money - bought a Fodera, now I'm baroque.

 

[esa372]

I actually watched this clip a lot about a year or two ago when I was hoping to get a fretless to play classical music with. You did a great job! I haven’t listened to it in a while (I’m just getting back into music from taking a long break), but I’ll definitely listen to again shortly.

Out of curiousity, was the bass tuned to BEADG?

Thanks! ...and, yes it was tuned BEADG. But after I made this video, I restrung it EADGC.

 

[Matthew_84]

One thing is sure, they didn't write all the rythm like we do today. They used flourish so reading was a lot easier than reading a poopie ton of 16th.

I had to google flourish as I wasn’t sure what you were referring to, but ran across this very detailed page on Wikipedia regardeing musical flourishes/ornaments/embellishments:

Ornament (music) - Wikipedia

On this page is a chart that J.S. Bach drew detailing different flourishes:

 

[Clef_de_fa]

I had to google flourish as I wasn’t sure what you were referring to, but ran across this very detailed page on Wikipedia regardeing musical flourishes/ornaments/embellishments:

Ornament (music) - Wikipedia

On this page is a chart that J.S. Bach drew detailing different flourishes:

View attachment 2976522

yeah the top was what was actually written and the bottom is what it is actually played

and yeah I wasn't sure how it was called in English in my language they are called "Ornements"

 

[SteveCS]

I am actually very curious about the chordal improvisation aspect.

From what I understand, there were numbers on the sheet music to indicate when a chord would be played.

I’m assuming those were scale degrees numbers, but I’m guessing it would be more of a recommendation to have that scale degree in the chord somewhere (doesn’t have to be the root), and that chordal player could use a chord without that number if they thought it would be better?

Figured Bass...
The numbers indicate the inversion of the chord by relating to intervals above the given bass note. If no figures are given, 5/3 is assumed, which means the given bass note is Root. 6/4 means a 4th and 6th above the bass, or 2nd inversion. So if the bass note is G, the chord for the continuo will be C. 6/3 is 1st inversion - 3rd and 6th above the bass. If E is bass, chord is again C.

 

[Clef_de_fa]

Figured Bass...
The numbers indicate the inversion of the chord by relating to intervals above the given bass note. If no figures are given, 5/3 is assumed, which means the given bass note is Root. 6/4 means a 4th and 6th above the bass, or 2nd inversion. So if the bass note is G, the chord for the continuo will be C. 6/3 is 1st inversion - 3rd and 6th above the bass. If E is bass, chord is again C.

Been so long since I saw how it was written but it was a good way to make a suspended chord obvious