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Bass amp, the big shootout!

#21
baxter_x said:
Ampeg SVT 2 Pro
We all know this classic amp. I wanted to try it since a while as the tube sound is praised by so many players and I wanted to see if that all tube thing was THAT great. The first thing that hit me was the fact that when played clean , I felt I was playing my SVT 4. To me it was 100% the same sound. I even had to visually check that my bass was plugged in the SVT 2 to make sure I was not mistaking. I then messed with the amp for like two hours, but haven't been really impressed by that tube thing. Yes, I could feel that natural tube compression, that tube "thing", but nothing so incredible to me. I felt my Titan and my SVT 4 had more headroom in the lows. I admit, I rented it and never used it live, but I'll never do it for one reason: its weight!!! OMG!!! Are you serious?? Some of you really carry that thing around??? So much pain just for this tube tone? If I had to just, I would take another SVT 4 against the 2. I might be the only bassist in the world to make such a choice but I swear I would! Tonewise pretty much the same for the sound I crave, and the SVT 4 pro is not such a pain to move around
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I play in bands where everyone helps each other load gear. So weight isn't that much of an issue. Especially since in one of those bands, the guitarists are using 4x12 cabs that weigh a lot.

Also an SVT has to be played live, in a mix, to really get the appeal, IMO.

I've tried 4pros. They're way too clean for me. Couldn't get enough grit out of them.
 
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#22
Korladis said:
I play in bands where everyone helps each other load gear. So weight isn't that much of an issue. Especially since in one of those bands, the guitarists are using 4x12 cabs that weigh a lot.

Also an SVT has to be played live, in a mix, to really get the appeal, IMO.

I've tried 4pros. They're way too clean for me. Couldn't get enough grit out of them.
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I do understand that ANY amp must be played live to really have a feedback on it. That's the reason why I said I just rent it and didn't play live. Also, I'm a really clean sound bass player. That's probably why I felt the SVT 2 was sounding the same as my SVT 4. Simply because I dialed pretty much the same clean sound. However, I will never use an SVT 2 if I don't have any roadies! That's for sure. 'Cause when you end your gig late at night, have a one hour drive, and then have to unload your car...... There you're alll alone. My SVT 4 was sometimes painful at 3-4 in the morning. So I just do not even wanna think about the SVT2!!

Just in case next time you have to use a 4 PRo: Set the master at 50 to 75% and user the gain as master volume. You will use the massive tone that is capable of. However, still clean ;)
 
#23
baxter_x said:
I do understand that ANY amp must be played live to really have a feedback on it. That's the reason why I said I just rent it and didn't play live. Also, I'm a really clean sound bass player. That's probably why I felt the SVT 2 was sounding the same as my SVT 4. Simply because I dialed pretty much the same clean sound. However, I will never use an SVT 2 if I don't have any roadies! That's for sure. 'Cause when you end your gig late at night, have a one hour drive, and then have to unload your car...... There you're alll alone. My SVT 4 was sometimes painful at 3-4 in the morning. So I just do not even wanna think about the SVT2!!

Just in case next time you have to use a 4 PRo: Set the master at 50 to 75% and user the gain as master volume. You will use the massive tone that is capable of. However, still clean ;)
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I don't like clean in rock music.

I couldn't get any grit on the 4pro even with the gain totally cranked.

As for the SVT-2Pro and other tube amps... generally I do my unloading with the rest of the band, at our rehearsal studio, after shows. So it's not a big deal. And the heads just make the trip from cars to the top of the cabs, and then we roll them around everywhere else (our cabs basically all have wheels).
 
#28
baxter_x said:
I do understand that ANY amp must be played live to really have a feedback on it. That's the reason why I said I just rent it and didn't play live. Also, I'm a really clean sound bass player. That's probably why I felt the SVT 2 was sounding the same as my SVT 4. Simply because I dialed pretty much the same clean sound. However, I will never use an SVT 2 if I don't have any roadies! That's for sure. 'Cause when you end your gig late at night, have a one hour drive, and then have to unload your car...... There you're alll alone. My SVT 4 was sometimes painful at 3-4 in the morning. So I just do not even wanna think about the SVT2!!

Just in case next time you have to use a 4 PRo: Set the master at 50 to 75% and user the gain as master volume. You will use the massive tone that is capable of. However, still clean ;)
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Four years ago I get a discount price on four small Fender Rumble (older black serie) cab rated at 250w. 25 lbs, two 1x12 and two 2x8, I will never carry anymore a fridge at 2 in the night. I totally agree with you, several small cabs push the same as a monument cab.
 
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#29
some big boys amps I fumbled around with (I leave the mid power gear out)

SVT 4 Pro: never owned one, but each time it stood in the backline I had no issue with it, tone, power, it's bassman's working horse

Trace Elliot RAH600SMX: this was a pretty good sounding amp with lots of power and a character of its own, a real workhorse

Gallien Krueger 1001 RB II: PUNCH, and rather leightweight, to me the compression introduced somewhere in the power unit was too much, I want something more open, but it punched as hell!

EBS Fafner: good sounding, powerful amp, maybe it was the lack of dirt, which deviated my attention, EBS are like scandinavian women, always a bit too clean and non-hysterical

Genz Benz GBE 1200: THE WALL! power to the max, reliable, used it a lot and it never let me down, currently you can grab some used ones for 600-700€ and I'm considering buying one and putting it aside as the ultimate spare

Thunderfunk TFB750: clean, ultraflexible, best EQ, the swiss army knife for difficult rooms, and easy to carry around

Mesa 400+: and then there was the 400+, replaced all other amps and remained my main amp for long time, reliable, good sounding as hell, if I had to choose for one amp only, I'd take the 400+

Mesa Strategy 8:88: the unfortunate successor of the 400+, sorrily sold not so well and now it's discontinued, my main amp since it came out, unifies tonal quality and solid state alike power

Mesa Titan V12: my newest addition, sits between Mesa's all tube amps and the GBE 1200, no power unit compression at all, incredibly flexible preamp design, easier to carry along than the tube monsters
 
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#30
Thanks for your input!

marcblum said:
Mesa Strategy 8:88: the unfortunate successor of the 400+, sorrily sold not so well and now it's discontinued, my main amp since it came out, unifies tonal quality and solid state alike power
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Totally agree. When I tried it I felt I was actually playing the Mesa Carbine M9. It felt really "solid state" for a tube amp.

marcblum said:
Mesa Titan V12: my newest addition, sits between Mesa's all tube amps and the GBE 1200, no power unit compression at all, incredibly flexible preamp design, easier to carry along than the tube monsters
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The Titan..... Simply the best amp in my opinion.
 
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#31
baxter_x said:
Totally agree. When I tried it [8:88] I felt I was actually playing the Mesa Carbine M9. It felt really "solid state" for a tube amp.
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Not sure, if we really are on the same page. My post was a bit unclear (not being a native English speaker) on that.
I'm happy with the 8:88's sound, to me it is pretty tubey. It's far from the dry analytic projection the Thunderfunk delivers. But due to it's super big power unit it can be exceptional clear, especially when you run it with low gain and master volume wide open. The possibility of switching to 4 and 2 power tubes opens up a wide range of typical tube tones that deserve thorough exploration. The 2 KT88 setting is so sweet and singing, it is far from solid state nakedness. :)
 
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#34
Thanks for this. Beauty is in the ears of the beholder I suppose, as my experience with the 400+ and the Aguilar were opposite to yours and I have owned and used both for considerable periods. I agree with you on the weight of the 2pro. Not to say of course that your opinion is not valid, just that I suppose we all have different tone goals and hear things slightly differently and of course play in different bands with different musicians who in turn use different gear. Like you I prefer a clean tone, but for me in a band situation the Aguilar 751 is the bee's knees. I always had to work hard to get a decent tone out of the 400+, and that was despite trying all the mods like the 12ax7 tube swap for a lower gain one etc. I haven't had much experience of the other Mesa heads you reference although my D800+ does get plenty of use. Great to have the time in lockdown to share these useful discussions.
 
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#36
baxter_x said:
Hi all,

I thought it could be interesting to have a big amp shootout with most of the classic amps for bass. Obviously, everything will be In My Humble Opinion.
I've played for about 7 years on an Ampeg SVT 4 Pro. I've also owned Mesa M-Pulse 600, a Mesa M9 Carbine and a Mesa Titan V12. I sold all the heads and kept the Titan V12.
I also wanted to try since a long time an all tube head just to see if it's worth it. SO I rented an Ampeg SVT2 Pro and an Aguilar DB750. I wanted to try the DB750 as so many people praise that amp.
The basses I used where an Fender American Deluxe Precision, a Lakland 55-02 Deluxe and a Sire V7. Cabs were two SWR Goliath III 410s.

So, here's my review of all the amps:

Ampeg SVT 4 Pro:
As I mentioned it, I've used this amp fro 7 years. To me, it's one of the best amp you can find on the market. It has all the bells and whistles any bass player would need: Compressor, 9 band EQ, power for days. Also, you can plug a hole bunch of different cab combinations thanks the mono/stereo capabilities of the amp. And in stereo it can go down to 2ohms. Soundwise it's massive, heavy... The typical Ampeg tone. Unfortunatly, I've seen many people bashing that amp on the board. I can't believe those who bash the amp used it correctly. However because of this mono/stereo capability, the SVT 4 Pro is not a plug and play amp. I sold because it was a bit heavy, after 7 years I wanted to change, and I would probably never use the stereo options as I only play 4*10s. But I still love that great amp!

Mesa Titan V12
The same says it all! Same power as the SVT 4 PRo, but feels a bit stronger. However it has two totally independent channels with OD on each channels, solo knob, two independents inputs . It's also very light for such an amp! around 30lb. Tonewise, the amp has the Mesa tone. Very clean, articulate and very dynamic. Knobs are very sensitive. Everything can be controlled from the 5 buttons footswitch. The sound produced is as massive as the SVT 4, a bit stronger and slightly colder. But I love it. I compared it to the SVT 2, and felt it was the same. The SVT2 was maybe a little bit more articulate, but in a live situation, you never notice it!

Ampeg SVT 2 Pro
We all know this classic amp. I wanted to try it since a while as the tube sound is praised by so many players and I wanted to see if that all tube thing was THAT great. The first thing that hit me was the fact that when played clean , I felt I was playing my SVT 4. To me it was 100% the same sound. I even had to visually check that my bass was plugged in the SVT 2 to make sure I was not mistaking. I then messed with the amp for like two hours, but haven't been really impressed by that tube thing. Yes, I could feel that natural tube compression, that tube "thing", but nothing so incredible to me. I felt my Titan and my SVT 4 had more headroom in the lows. I admit, I rented it and never used it live, but I'll never do it for one reason: its weight!!! OMG!!! Are you serious?? Some of you really carry that thing around??? So much pain just for this tube tone? If I had to just, I would take another SVT 4 against the 2. I might be the only bassist in the world to make such a choice but I swear I would! Tonewise pretty much the same for the sound I crave, and the SVT 4 pro is not such a pain to move around

Aguilar DB750
Well...... Tell me what's so special with this amp?? I was just nice. Nothing fancy or fantastic about the tone produced. It even reminded my Mesa M-Pulse 600 that I traded against an M9 because I couldn't get a tone I liked out of it. I felt the same with the DB750. The fans produced the same level of noise of a plane when taking off. The weight is insane for an SS amp. Did I miss something? I've seen this amp described so many times as one of the best things ever created for bass players, but to me it's just.... nice.

Mesa Carbine M9
Traded against an M-Pulse 600 plus 300 buck from me. It was night and day! I loved the M9. Super dynamic, great finish, awesome compressor, 9 bands EQ, only 2U.... Absolutely great amp. Despite some strange choices in the conception of the amp. Especially the taper of the master volume. Those who owned it know what I'm talking about. One very slight touch on the knob switched from mute to deafening. Plus other little strange things. Still, an awesome amp. I also felt it was sounding way better with my Sire V7 than both of my PBasses. I sold it as it was bit too much on the SS typical sound. And At the time I had to much gear that had to go.

This great shootout raised a couple of things. First, trust your ears and only your ears. For example so many people claim the DB750 is one of the most fantastic head created. I just think it has nothing special, it's very heavy and noisy. Also, many of the board claim once you have tried an all tube amp, you never look back. Well, maybe I should try more, but for what I've seen and heard, I don't see a real reason to go full tube.
And in the end, I finally found out that I was more of an SS amp player. So I'll save my cash for a Sadowsky bass soon ;)
Any feedback will be appreciated as usual.

Thanks for reading
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I've used both an SVT 4 Pro and a 70's SVT which is my usual head, to me the SVT 4 is a little colder sounding but is still a very good sounding amp, I can hear the difference between it and an all tube SVT. I prefer the tube SVT and still lug them. I have never used an SVT 2 Pro though, I did own a skunkworks SVT head at one time and that was a SLM head and I prefered the 70's SVT head to that one too.
 
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#39
Numa said:
Exactly!

And speaking of weight, I have been carrying around my SWR Megoliath 410 for a long time, with my very faithful V-4B (Classic series) on it.
All other cabs or amps feel light to me :D
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This cab is extremely heavy and bulky too! It was my cab dream for a while. And then I had the opportunity to try it. Great cab, but my Fender neo 810 sounds at least the same, less bulky and way lighter.
 
#40
Biggest mistake I've made in a long time was trading in my Titan. At the time (pre -Talkbass for me )the techs at Long and McQuade told me that the series was kaput and parts were gonna be unobtainium. So I listened to the scallywags and traded it for a GK Fusion 800 and a used Fender V3 Rumble 500. Both great heads but not in the same league as my Titan IMHO
 

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