I know that Richard but if you play all major scales on the set of triads that i have mention above it won't sound right. One of them as to be thought as a V7 by the melody or the b7 in the chord to be functional. Without that b7 in the melody or in the chord, it is impossible to establish a key center, that was my point on that.
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Bass Chords?
- Thread starter OctoRock
- Start date
I know that Richard but if you play all major scales on the set of triads that i have mention above it won't sound right. One of them as to be thought as a V7 by the melody or the b7 in the chord to be functional. Without that b7 in the melody or in the chord, it is impossible to establish a key center, that was my point on that.
No, it's still quite possible. The 7th makes it easier, which is why it became so popular, but it's not absolutely necessary for harmonic functionality. You don't need a V7, you only really need a V. The rhythms, the cadences, and the resolutions will show you which is which. Or, as i said, the thousands of songs that use triads but have harmonic function that is as clear as a bell and as obvious as the nose on my face (which is pretty obvious, given my nose
).
Sly,
I to must disagree. If you have 3 triads a C major, a G major and a D major - the I is obviously the G. As the I, IV and V chords of any key are major. The key of G is the ONLY key that has G, C and D as major triads.
Mike Dimin
Right you are, you would not play major scales over each chord. You would play Major over the G, Lydian over the C and Mixolydian over the D. All in the key of G.
Mike Dimin
No, it's still quite possible. The 7th makes it easier, which is why it became so popular, but it's not absolutely necessary for harmonic functionality. You don't need a V7, you only really need a V. The rhythms, the cadences, and the resolutions will show you which is which. Or, as i said, the thousands of songs that use triads but have harmonic function that is as clear as a bell and as obvious as the nose on my face (which is pretty obvious, given my nose
Please Richard reread what I wrote. If you play all major scales on just two chords like C and F it won't sound right in a harmonic context. YOU NEED TO KNOW WHICH ONE FUNCTIONS AS THE I because the triads won't tell you. The melody will tell you but play these two chords back and forth and each one can be heard as a I. It could I-V in F or it could be I-IV in C. It is only the fourth note in the chord (7) that will tell you the harmonic function of them. So if you CMaj7 to FMaj7 then you know you are in C. If you have C7 going to FMaj7 , you know you are in F Maj. Of course you need a melody to dictate these functions if you have only triads.
When playing music, you are correct, it makes no difference what you call them, it's all about what they sound like. HOWEVER, if you want to have an intellectual discussion on music theory, if you want to understand the bass and the music that you play or aspire to play better, then it absolutely matters
Mike Dimin
What I like to use if i'm doing the whole chord thing is, say on a 4 string
6
5
-
5
=A dom7
5
5
-
5
=a minor
6
6
-
5
= a major7
those shapes make up about 75% of the chords I do. As a rule of thumb I use that shape if the root is on the E string otherwise if the root is on the A I throw in the 3rd an octave lower
6
5
-
5
=A dom7
5
5
-
5
=a minor
6
6
-
5
= a major7
those shapes make up about 75% of the chords I do. As a rule of thumb I use that shape if the root is on the E string otherwise if the root is on the A I throw in the 3rd an octave lower
Sorry Mike but it could be something else like C as the I ,G7 as the V7 and D as a D7 subbing for Dmin7. It could be a Rock tune in D with G as IV and C as a b7 also. You need that fourth note to establish the key center IMHO.
I did read it. Nobody was talking about just playing major scales on every triad, so I'm not sure what you mean by that. You always think about they key or mode or harmonic space you're working in when you think about choosing your non-chord notes.
Generally the music tells you which is which. We're not talking about just playing two chords in a vacuum. We're talking about how chords work in a musical piece. You could play a piece in C that uses only triads and never once uses F in the melody, and the harmonic function would be completely clear.
The rhythmic placement of chords often makes it obvious as well. Suppose you have this:
|C | C | FG | C |
It would be very difficult to hear this as anything but I IV V in C.
If what you say is true, it would be impossible to analyze harmonic function with triads alone. Yet every textbook I've ever seen does exactly that. Why do you think that is?
You don't need that fourth note. You just need to look at and listen to what the chords in the specific piece are actually doing. That means where they occur, how long they stay there, where your phrases start, where they end, what the melody is doing.
I don't agree because as the bass player you need to know even if not written which one is the V or the I. Play the dominant descending line on the wrong chord and it becomes a Blues instead of a pop tune LOL.
Now, I agree with that. Of course you do! But you have to do this, and CAN do this, even if the chords are all triads. I have played probably hundreds of tunes like this, and you can easily do it using your ears and your knowledge.
The D7 is a dominant chord, if it subbing for the D min than you are temporarily in the key of G, a V of V, so to speak. There are 2 key centers in the example that you pose.
Discussions like this is why I resigned from being one of the original "Ask The Pros" here.
I get on fine in my metal band using quite a few chords built around 3rds, 7ths and 10ths, both major and minor, depending on the context. But hey, the smug police can never accept any merit in music they don't like.
Hey bro, I like metal too. I used to play guitar in a metal band and even play bass for metal bands in the studio sometimes. I'm not being smug, I'm speaking from experience.
BTW, metal is good music.
Sorry Mike. I know we are all right in this hopeless discussion ;-). We all played thousands and thousands of songs with mainly triads and knowing which one of them is the I. No need to take it personally , it wasn't my intention but I will stand correctly on it based on my personal experience as a musician and teacher.
No offense to you and Richard ;-)
