Bass Has Weird Noise Issue

[No Compute]

Whoops.

I see the make and model of the instrument is clearly stated in the first post, and does not have a metallic P/U cover (unless the prototypes differ). My mistake.

 

[JBoogy]

Here are some pictures, they show the bridge and pickup. I haven't removed the strings and pickup to look at the shielding in the pickup cavity, or the knobs and pickguard to see the shielding under them. I don't trust myself to not mess something up lol I am not very handy.

I did try another room and another cable, but the same issue with no change. It currently has Thomastik-Infeld Jazz Nickel Flat Wound Round Core Strings on it, fresh pair.

I don't have a multimeter and don't really know anything about them. I can order one from Amazon, but I am not sure how that would even work.

I know several people have said it's normal, I could accept that if my other basses all did it but I can't wrap my head around cheap ibanez basses being silent and this - by all objective measures - "better" bass having this issue. It will drive me nuts. I am hoping Warrior responds with some knowledge. I also plan on calling my local repair shop again although I think at this point they might not be happy to see that bass again lol

 

[BadB]

Is the bridge well grounded?

 

[JBoogy]

Is the bridge well grounded?

According to the repair shop, they checked all the grounding and shielding and could not find any issues, but for good measure added extra shielding anyways in the electronics cavity. I have no reason to not trust them as they have done lots of work for me and my friends over the years and it's always been top-notch. They seemed perplexed at first too, spending weeks with it. Then after the new preamp was installed they said it was good now. I specifically asked about this exact issue when I picked it up and the technician said he played it for over 20 minutes straight plugged into several different amps and never had a single issue. So I really left assured it was fine now and was greatly surprised and disappointed to find it still did it. I don't know how to take a bass apart and check grounds and all so I mean I assume it is based on the technician's statements, but I am confused why they had no issue with it and I do.

 

[BlueTalon]

I don't have a multimeter and don't really know anything about them. I can order one from Amazon, but I am not sure how that would even work.

I know several people have said it's normal, I could accept that if my other basses all did it but I can't wrap my head around cheap ibanez basses being silent and this - by all objective measures - "better" bass having this issue. It will drive me nuts.

Don't let anyone tell you that unwanted noise is normal. Maybe it is for them, but my standard is dead silence, especially if other basses in exactly the same situation do not have any noise, as is the case with you.

Also, don't let your lack of experience keep you from getting a multimeter and learning how to use it. If you can afford $10 or so, you can get a multimeter. Don't be afraid to try it, you can't screw anything up with it. And even if you never use it for anything other than checking continuity on your bass, the multimeter itself plus the experience you gain from using it should be worth the $10 investment.

 

[JimmyJames79]

Here are some pictures, they show the bridge and pickup. I haven't removed the strings and pickup to look at the shielding in the pickup cavity, or the knobs and pickguard to see the shielding under them. I don't trust myself to not mess something up lol I am not very handy.

I did try another room and another cable, but the same issue with no change. It currently has Thomastik-Infeld Jazz Nickel Flat Wound Round Core Strings on it, fresh pair.

I don't have a multimeter and don't really know anything about them. I can order one from Amazon, but I am not sure how that would even work.

I know several people have said it's normal, I could accept that if my other basses all did it but I can't wrap my head around cheap ibanez basses being silent and this - by all objective measures - "better" bass having this issue. It will drive me nuts. I am hoping Warrior responds with some knowledge. I also plan on calling my local repair shop again although I think at this point they might not be happy to see that bass again lol

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[JimmyJames79]

Hi Boogy.
I had a huge ground noise problem with my warrior Gabriel bass. I took it to a local tech ( because warrior service never returned my calls/emails)
Anyhow the tech said a major reason was that I had my pickups raised too high towards the strings ( I use the neck pickup as a thumb rest so I did raise them )
I was told I should always have at least 5mm between pickup and strings.
It did make a huge difference so you might want to try this?

 

[Zooberwerx]

Then after the new preamp was installed they said it was good now. I specifically asked about this exact issue when I picked it up and the technician said he played it for over 20 minutes straight plugged into several different amps and never had a single issue. So I really left assured it was fine now and was greatly surprised and disappointed to find it still did it. I don't know how to take a bass apart and check grounds and all so I mean I assume it is based on the technician's statements, but I am confused why they had no issue with it and I do.

Take the bass and amp back to the shop and show / demo for the tech.

Riis

 

[two fingers]

There are a lot of very simple things that need to be done here. Trouble shooting starts with quickly determining what the problem is NOT.

1) Take the bass to another building to try it out. The easiest way to do this is a guitar shop. The one that makes sense to me is the one where your bass was "repaired". (While we're at it, from now on, always TRUST BUT VERIFY. Don't leave a shop again without confirming your repairs have been done properly.) But if the bass no longer makes a noise in their shop, you know something ON YOUR HOUSE is interacting with this bass in a bad way. The absolute best test would be to take one of your amps, and the cable you have been using, to their shop. Then you can try both YOUR gear, and THEIR gear, to gain even more information.

2) While you're there, confirm that your trusty repair guy removed the bridge and made sure that ground wire under is making good contact. The reason I bring that up is that the bridge is PAINTED. The paint on the bottom side of that bridge may be keeping the ground wire from making good contact. If some of that paint hasn't been scratched away, there might not be a ground contact.

3) Absolutely verify the instrument cable. Try a different one (preferably a different brand). Something about that cable may be interacting with your particular bass in a bad way.

If the bass makes noise in all ofnthose situations, AND you verify that the bridge was removed and there is exposed metal on the bottom touching the ground wire, we can ask more questions then.

If the bass DOESN'T make noise in one or more of those situations, we have begun to narrow down what we're dealing with here.

 

[Turnaround]

When strings pick up noise that vanishes if you touch them, it usually means you're either grounding them capacitatively, or resistively, so even if shielding is good, it has to be grounded properly so you don't have to do it through your body (which in some contexts can be truly dangerous!). I have seen a great result of modification on a bass done by someone who completely overlooked the quality of connection between a ground wire and the bridge!

No - we've been through this a hundred times before. You don't ground the bass then you touch the strings, the bass grounds you. As pointed out earlier, your body is a source of noise. When you touch the strings or any other part of the bass that is grounded that noise is drained away.

 

[Lostgallifreyan]

No - we've been through this a hundred times before. You don't ground the bass then you touch the strings, the bass grounds you. As pointed out earlier, your body is a source of noise. When you touch the strings or any other part of the bass that is grounded that noise is drained away.

Then how do you account for the fact that the noise was NOT drained to ground when the strings were not touched? You have this backwards. In cases where the body is picking up sounds, the touch on the ungrounded strings would have increased the noise, NOT decreased it.

If they were grounded well, I doubt there'd have been any noticeable effect when touching them.

As to whether the body is grounded, or picking up noise, that's extremely arbitrary, all but unquantifiable, it depends on what else is touched, what ambient noise sources exist, and even humidity changes it a lot when the resistance in some ground is unacceptably high. The clothes a person wears at the time can make an enormous difference. Can't easily analyse the body's noise behaviour, but if the strings were properly grounded it wouldn't matter anyway. It would always be relatively free of any noise.

EDIT. If you have noise picked up in untouched strings, that goes away when you touch them, all it means is that YOU are a better ground than the one that should be there!

 

[uOpt]

It is my understanding with proper shielding, this interference/noise shouldn’t be audible. I suppose some people with just live with it, but it bothers me that my two cheap Ibanez basses are dead silent and my high-end warrior bass has an annoying (but subtle) noise if it isn’t being grounded by my hands to the strings. Just seems wrong to me. Lol

That is correct (except you don't ground the strings, the strings ground you so that your body acts as a shield). If you shield completely enough you don't need the grounded bridge and the hand on the strings anymore. Most people are happy enough with touching the strings.

Your Ibanez basses seem to have pretty good shielding.

Of course if your shop added shielding then the noise should have gotten at least a bit better. Maybe they added shielding that they didn't ground properly.

Your preamp is OK if the noise goes away when you touch the strings.

 

[uOpt]

Here are some pictures, they show the bridge and pickup. I haven't removed the strings and pickup to look at the shielding in the pickup cavity, or the knobs and pickguard to see the shielding under them. I don't trust myself to not mess something up lol I am not very handy.

I did try another room and another cable, but the same issue with no change. It currently has Thomastik-Infeld Jazz Nickel Flat Wound Round Core Strings on it, fresh pair.

I don't have a multimeter and don't really know anything about them. I can order one from Amazon, but I am not sure how that would even work.

I know several people have said it's normal, I could accept that if my other basses all did it but I can't wrap my head around cheap ibanez basses being silent and this - by all objective measures - "better" bass having this issue. It will drive me nuts. I am hoping Warrior responds with some knowledge. I also plan on calling my local repair shop again although I think at this point they might not be happy to see that bass again lol

View attachment 4830859 View attachment 4830860 View attachment 4830861 View attachment 4830862 View attachment 4830863 View attachment 4830864

These are humbuckers. Shielding the pickup cavity will do nothing. (Shielding the cable channel towards the pickups is recommended if the wires are not having a shield on their own)

 

[Turnaround]

Then how do you account for the fact that the noise was NOT drained to ground when the strings were not touched? You have this backwards. In cases where the body is picking up sounds, the touch on the strings would have increased the noise, NOT decreased it.

If they were grounded well, I doubt there's have been any noticeable effect when touching them.

No, sorry but you are the one who has it backwards. The noise was not drained to ground when the strings were not touched because you were not connected to the bass's ground. Try this - plug a lead cord into your amp. Grab the free end of the cord by the very tip, avoiding touching the shaft of the plug. That noise is your body noise. Now move you hand so that you are touching both the shaft and the tip of the plug. Your body noise is grounded and drained away.

 

[Lostgallifreyan]

Try this - plug a lead cord into your amp. Grab the free end of the cord by the very tip, avoiding touching the shaft of the plug. That noise is your body noise. Now move you hand so that you are touching both the shaft and the tip of the plug. Your body noise is grounded and drained away.

True. But now consider what happens if you repeat that experiment with a lead whose ground is missing.

Remember that a broken ground can lead to a very high resistance, one where in many cases the human body offers a better path to ground.

 

[uOpt]

No, sorry but you are the one who has it backwards. The noise was not drained to ground when the strings were not touched because you were not connected to the bass's ground. Try this - plug a lead cord into your amp. Grab the free end of the cord by the very tip, avoiding touching the shaft of the plug. That noise is your body noise. Now move you hand so that you are touching both the shaft and the tip of the plug. Your body noise is grounded and drained away.

That doesn't prove that your body induces noise into the pickups "wirelessly".

A better test to resolve your argument:
- put bass on playing position on a stand
- move your body closer and farther away from the bass (no touching)
- observe whether the noise changes

If the noise changes the "human is antenna" theory is correct.

If the noise doesn't change then the "human is abused as shield via grounded strings" is correct.

EDIT: both theories being correct is also a possibility

 

[Lostgallifreyan]

If the noise changes the "human is antenna" theory is correct.

If the noise doesn't change then the "human is abused as shield via grounded strings" is correct.

EDIT: both theories being correct is also a possibility

Nice observation, because it relates to the notion that a 'ground' is actually a counterpoise, a fundamental aspect of RF engineering.

Where strings pick up noise when UNtouched, and lose it when touched, it may just mean that the body is at potential equivalence to the local ground elsewhere in the instrument! No current flow, so no noise.

Of course, this may well just prove that the proper grounding has failed because these local effects would not otherwise dominate.

 

[scuzzy]

Get some tape and remove the steel wool shards from the pickup poles. That would be my first step, go on from there.

 

[Turnaround]

That doesn't prove that your body induces noise into the pickups "wirelessly".

A better test to resolve your argument:
- put bass on playing position on a stand
- move your body closer and farther away from the bass (no touching)
- observe whether the noise changes

If the noise changes the "human is antenna" theory is correct.

If the noise doesn't change then the "human is abused as shield via grounded strings" is correct.

EDIT: both theories being correct is also a possibility

There is no path to ground when I am standing on a rubber mat, yet the noise disappears when I touch anything on the bass that is grounded. Clearly I am not providing a path to ground, but the bass is.

 

[byacey]

If the strings are properly grounded, when you touch the strings and find the noise diminishes, this is because your body is also at signal ground potential and acts as an additional electrostatic shield for the pickups and wiring in the bass guitar.