Bass-Only IEM from a DI

[DanTheMan2112]

I'm thinking about trying IEMs again 10+ years after deciding I didn't like using them. I felt like it was too much hassle before because I couldn't count on getting a mix that I liked. I know it's a bit different now with digital mixers, apps, etc., but I'm curious about using a super simplified setup initially. I know it's probably not ideal, but is it possible to split the signal from a DI box into an IEM transmitter? What I want to do is isolate the rest of the band (particularly the drums) and just have some bass. I might also use it in conjunction with my 3DME system. Thanks for any insight.

 

[drpepper]

Various Rolls headphone amps and some wireless systems have pass-through.

On a Rolls for example, you'd go "Mic Input" from your DI and then "Mic Thru" to the mixer. Assuming that there aren't unworkable level mismatches (which I've never tried this to know), it would do what you're looking for. The Rolls units are obviously expecting a mic and wireless transmitters are expecting a monitor/aux signal from a mixer, so I'd check into whether the levels work.

 

[Mike Caldwell]

With an IEM system has a mix / blend option where at the receiver pack you can mix between the two input channels you could do a variation to what you want to do by splitting your bass DI out, a Y cable would work, one to FOH and the other to the IEM transmitter, then build a mix of the other inputs as you like with the exception of the bass.
At the receiver you would balance between the two sources.

Mixing your own IEM monitors with an APP these days makes it easy.

 

[DirtDog]

Behringer P1.

Bonus, can also mix an aux feed from the board (say, for vocals).

 

[Wasnex]

I'm thinking about trying IEMs again 10+ years after deciding I didn't like using them. I felt like it was too much hassle before because I couldn't count on getting a mix that I liked. I know it's a bit different now with digital mixers, apps, etc., but I'm curious about using a super simplified setup initially. I know it's probably not ideal, but is it possible to split the signal from a DI box into an IEM transmitter? What I want to do is isolate the rest of the band (particularly the drums) and just have some bass. I might also use it in conjunction with my 3DME system. Thanks for any insight.

Your wasting your time with this approach IMHO.

In order to work well with bass, IEM buds need to seal. So you need a mix of the band to go with the sound of your bass. Otherwise you will not hear the band well enough to play.

There are IEMs with an ambient sound feature. AFAIK these are very expensive. Ambient IEMs are designed to both give good bass response and allow you to hear what is going on around you. This would be better than nothing, but I still think you will be better off using a mix.

AFAIK an IEM transmitter will require a line level input. So you can't drive one with most DIs. For example, the PSM300 User Guide says the input is switchable from -10dBv to +4dBu: consumer and pro line level.

Probably the closest you can get cheap is a something from Rolls. You can send a vocal mic, line level bass signal, and a line level monitor mix from FOH to the Rolls PM351. You can mix these three signals to taste. The instrument and mic signal pass through to FOH on balanced XLRs.

The down side is the PM351 does not give you any tone control or a limiter to provide protection. You could use a pedal preamp for tone control and to boost the signal to line level. Make sure you get a preamp that can actually put out line level.

 

[drpepper]

Your wasting your time with this approach IMHO.

While I can't really imagine wanting to do this and would tend to agree for myself, the op says he wants bass only in his ears and already has the 3DME active ambient system and wants to try bass only with that. I don't have 3DME, so while I'm skeptical, I can't really say how well it might work.

So long as the DI signal works with the mic-thru on the Rolls units, they would do what's being asked and the 3DME has the limiter.

There's a great deal of variability in what people's personal preferences are for IEM mixes. If the the op tries this, personally, I'd be curious to know if it works for them.

 

[Ethereal Thorn]

Personally I wouldn't do just di bass unless it's a tube di or a preamp with a di it just sounds too sterile and flat to my ears and personal taste but your milage may vary.

 

[DanTheMan2112]

I really want to cut out the drums as much as possible, but get some bass back. I could still have them put (minimal) vocals/guitar/keys in the wedge until we (hopefully) upgrade our PA. Controlling my own IEM mix would be fantastic, but I don't know when we might get to that point.

 

[drpepper]

I really want to cut out the drums as much as possible, but get some bass back. I could still have them put (minimal) vocals/guitar/keys in the wedge until we (hopefully) upgrade our PA. Controlling my own IEM mix would be fantastic, but I don't know when we might get to that point.

I think a bit of difficulty in getting on-target input might come from your situation being kind of unique.

Are you trying to come up with a solution to particular situation that you deal with from time to time or is this what you have all of the time? I.e., you always or almost always use a band owned PA that doesn't have wifi monitor mixing, and currently all monitoring is in wedges? Since you mention having "them" put guitar and keys in your wedge, I take that to mean everything is through the PA and "them" is a dedicated sound person?

And you say you already have the 3DME system (which I think is a rarity)...are you using that in any way, or is just going unused because the band bagged IEMs?

First, it occurs to me that in terms of your initial question about "bass only IEMs", if there is an available monitor send on your mixer, you can just get that to your ears with only bass rather than trying to figure out what device might allow you to tap what you're sending to the mixer.

Second, it seems to me that if you always use a band owned mixer and have someone running it, you're situated about as well as you can be to just have the sound person mix your IEMs...they're already mixing your wedge. Again, I don't know how well the 3DMEs might allow you to create an ambient/bass mix in your ears, but adding a basic mix from the board instead of just bass could only help IMO. I say experiment with the options that don't have any financial cost.

 

[Wfrance3]

My only DI experience is from playing at our church. It was a little frustrating.
In my situation there wasn't a way to get everything going to the mixing desk back into the iem mix including bass. Since I had no way to hear myself, I finally gave up and got a DI that had a headphone out and an aux in. What I ended up doing is I tuned up the mess of a DI mix best I could using the little console interface they gave me. That ran into the aux-in on my DI pedal. I ran the out to my iems. It worked out fine. I didn't have drums in my ears, but stood right by the drummer. I got enough of everything else to be functional. I controlled my level in the mix using my pedal.
If this is of interest, I used and AMPEG SCR-DI. I know that there are other choices TC Electronics Spectra Drive, and the new Genzler Magellan are two more. OT but I play thru a Magellan at church now and it's stellar.
[EDIT]
I play through the Magellan without iems because when we came back after covid "lock down", the iem setup was abandoned. Am sure the Magellan would work great as I described, but I have never personally used it in that capacity, only through a floor monitor.

 

[DanTheMan2112]

I think a bit of difficulty in getting on-target input might come from your situation being kind of unique.

Are you trying to come up with a solution to particular situation that you deal with from time to time or is this what you have all of the time? I.e., you always or almost always use a band owned PA that doesn't have wifi monitor mixing, and currently all monitoring is in wedges? Since you mention having "them" put guitar and keys in your wedge, I take that to mean everything is through the PA and "them" is a dedicated sound person?

And you say you already have the 3DME system (which I think is a rarity)...are you using that in any way, or is just going unused because the band bagged IEMs?

First, it occurs to me that in terms of your initial question about "bass only IEMs", if there is an available monitor send on your mixer, you can just get that to your ears with only bass rather than trying to figure out what device might allow you to tap what you're sending to the mixer.

Second, it seems to me that if you always use a band owned mixer and have someone running it, you're situated about as well as you can be to just have the sound person mix your IEMs...they're already mixing your wedge. Again, I don't know how well the 3DMEs might allow you to create an ambient/bass mix in your ears, but adding a basic mix from the board instead of just bass could only help IMO. I say experiment with the options that don't have any financial cost.

We have a band PA with (I believe) 2 aux sends. I'm currently using the 3DME as a very expensive set of earplugs so I can hear something vaguely like my bass sound. I used custom musician earplugs for years, but even those remove too much low end. I've been lobbying for new PA gear in order to save my back and possibly get a customized mix.

 

[Ethereal Thorn]

We live in a great time digital rack mixers are becoming really affordable I think I only paid $220 for my manufacturer refurb behringer x18 and it worked fine with my 5 piece band doing stereo iem mixes for each member it can do even more using the ultra net outputs and either stage connect boxes or p16m mixers.

 

[DirtDog]

Your wasting your time with this approach IMHO.

In order to work well with bass, IEM buds need to seal. So you need a mix of the band to go with the sound of your bass. Otherwise you will not hear the band well enough to play.

There are IEMs with an ambient sound feature. AFAIK these are very expensive. Ambient IEMs are designed to both give good bass response and allow you to hear what is going on around you. This would be better than nothing, but I still think you will be better off using a mix.

AFAIK an IEM transmitter will require a line level input. So you can't drive one with most DIs. For example, the PSM300 User Guide says the input is switchable from -10dBv to +4dBu: consumer and pro line level.

Probably the closest you can get cheap is a something from Rolls. You can send a vocal mic, line level bass signal, and a line level monitor mix from FOH to the Rolls PM351. You can mix these three signals to taste. The instrument and mic signal pass through to FOH on balanced XLRs.

The down side is the PM351 does not give you any tone control or a limiter to provide protection. You could use a pedal preamp for tone control and to boost the signal to line level. Make sure you get a preamp that can actually put out line level.

With all due respect to your wisdom and experience, @Wasnex (not being facetious or sarcastic, I do value your advice!!!), this is both do-able and not a waste of time.

Case in point: I'm the only dude in my two recent/current bands on IEM. I use them because I have hearing damage and tinnitus and would like to retain what hearing I have left and not aggravate the tinnitus unnecessarily. I also want to be able to hear myself singing - without relying on mains/monitors to hear myself.

Scenario 1: loud three peice rock band. I play bass and sing (backup mostly). I have a need to hear my bass above the loud guitar and drums as well as hear my vox but I don't want to crank my bass either. I use the Behringer P1 with a feed coming from my amp's DI (Ampeg PF500) and an aux mix of the band's vox channels from the mixer. I run my AM Pro 20s from the P1.

Scenario 2: very loud "country-soul" 5 piece. I play pedal steel and sing. Sometimes acoustic guitar. Again using the P1 with a feed coming from my amp's DI (Peavey Nashville 112) and an aux mix of the band's vox channels from the mixer.

In both cases, I want to hear my instrument clearly without overpowering the room and making things even louder. I also want to clearly hear my vox and and the band's vox so as to have half a chance of singing in key. In both cases, I'm able to achieve this.

This works REALLY well and has zero impact on the rest of the band. No need to pass through signal to the board. This is off to the side of the rest of the system. The Westone AM Pro 20s ($239, not the cheapest but not the most expensive, either) are ambient so I don't miss much of the room sound. Just takes it down a few notches of dBs. Actually, I had Shure 315s before the Westones and I didn't have much problem hearing the room even with well-sealed ear buds. Yes, it's just that loud, for better or worse.

So for, under $500 (P1 and AM Pro 20s) and running two XLR cables into the Behringer P1, I am pretty much set. I can hear myself and protect my hearing at the same time.

 

[Wasnex]

With all due respect to your wisdom and experience, @Wasnex (not being facetious or sarcastic, I do value your advice!!!), this is both do-able and not a waste of time.

Case in point: I'm the only dude in my two recent/current bands on IEM. I use them because I have hearing damage and tinnitus and would like to retain what hearing I have left and not aggravate the tinnitus unnecessarily. I also want to be able to hear myself singing - without relying on mains/monitors to hear myself.

Scenario 1: loud three peice rock band. I play bass and sing (backup mostly). I have a need to hear my bass above the loud guitar and drums as well as hear my vox but I don't want to crank my bass either. I use the Behringer P1 with a feed coming from my amp's DI (Ampeg PF500) and an aux mix of the band's vox channels from the mixer. I run my AM Pro 20s from the P1.

Scenario 2: very loud "country-soul" 5 piece. I play pedal steel and sing. Sometimes acoustic guitar. Again using the P1 with a feed coming from my amp's DI (Peavey Nashville 112) and an aux mix of the band's vox channels from the mixer.

In both cases, I want to hear my instrument clearly without overpowering the room and making things even louder. I also want to clearly hear my vox and and the band's vox so as to have half a chance of singing in key. In both cases, I'm able to achieve this.

This works REALLY well and has zero impact on the rest of the band. No need to pass through signal to the board. This is off to the side of the rest of the system. The Westone AM Pro 20s ($239, not the cheapest but not the most expensive, either) are ambient so I don't miss much of the room sound. Just takes it down a few notches of dBs. Actually, I had Shure 315s before the Westones and I didn't have much problem hearing the room even with well-sealed ear buds. Yes, it's just that loud, for better or worse.

So for, under $500 (P1 and AM Pro 20s) and running two XLR cables into the Behringer P1, I am pretty much set. I can hear myself and protect my hearing at the same time.

???

I don't disagree with what you are recommending or think it's a waste of time. My understanding is your suggestion is to blend a signal of your bass with a mix from FOH.

IMHO .

The OP asked how to do bass only in IEMs,

What I want to do is isolate the rest of the band (particularly the drums) and just have some bass.

IMHO bass only in the IEMs is a waste time...but obviously YMMV.

 

[DirtDog]

???

I don't disagree with what you are recommending or think it's a waste of time. My understanding is your suggestion is to blend a signal of your bass with a mix from FOH.

IMHO .

The OP asked how to do bass only in IEMs,


IMHO bass only in the IEMs is a waste time...but obviously YMMV.

Ok, thanks for clarifying. My misunderstanding! And I agree, bass only is probably a waste of time. I was indeed talking about mixing bass and other signals. Cheers!

 

[drpepper]

...bass only is probably a waste of time. I was indeed talking about mixing bass and other signals...

You may have missed that the op already owns active ambient IEMs, so he was more specifically asking how to get bass only into the IEMs and is actually wanting to mix the bass with that. It has binaural mics and the ambient sound can be boosted and eq'd within the system.

It might provide a workable solution, or it might not. Since I haven't experienced that myself, I'm not so willing to label it a waste of time or trying to dissuade him from trying it. Given the whole of the circumstances as explained, I'd encourage him to try it for himself and see.

 

[drpepper]

We have a band PA with (I believe) 2 aux sends. I'm currently using the 3DME as a very expensive set of earplugs so I can hear something vaguely like my bass sound. I used custom musician earplugs for years, but even those remove too much low end. I've been lobbying for new PA gear in order to save my back and possibly get a customized mix.

$800 earplugs? Yikes!

Yeah, so 2 aux sends certainly limits your current possibilities. I guess my first question would be since there has to be some sharing of those two channels going on, is it possible that others are used to not being picky and you can have one of the two?

Again, if it were me, I'd explore what's possible with no expense first. Good luck with it.

 

[DanTheMan2112]

I think it's worth mentioning that I have a moderate case of tinnitus. I'm willing to hear less of the others in the band (at least in the short term) if it means protecting my ears. The 3DME is pretty great, but I can't EQ the drums (main issue) out completely. The new Ampeg DI looks interesting, especially since it seems to have multiple output options. Something like that could be useful for a bass-only IEM scenario.

 

[drpepper]

...3DME is pretty great, but I can't EQ the drums (main issue) out completely...

You certainly have some catch 22s down each potential path.

Drums are tough. The 3DME mics are supposed to be picking up what your ears would if you weren't wearing the IEMs, so logically, the drums are going to be part of that in equal measure to what they would be at whatever level you're running...boost anything else, and you're boosting the drums. One thing that you might try in addition to EQing the edge off of them as much as possible would be to use the directionality/cross balance functions of the 3DME and your wedge position to reduce the drum pickup. For example, if you're standing to the left (stg right) of the drums, bring the mic balance completely to the left and send only that signal to both ears in balance. Also, position your wedge (carrying just vocals, guitar and keys) more to your left side. It obviously won't eliminate the drums, but using the pickup pattern/direction of the mic will allow the other things to come up more in what's being picked up on your left side. Might be just enough to make the necessary difference.

If you aren't mixing anything in, whether a feed from the board or from the 3DME mics, I think what others are saying and I'd tend to agree, is that with well sealed IEMs, it's hard to imagine that only bass and whatever bleed-through you get could be balanced into a very usable mix. But I guess if you're going to try it, you'll find out one way or the other.

 

[DanTheMan2112]

Update: I got an Xvive and plugged the transmitter into the DI of my Zoom B3. It actually works really well. The band plans to get a new mixer so I will be able to eventually have my own full IEM mix. In the meantime, however, the bass-only IEM with the 3DME ambient mics is great!