Just played a local popular venue. I have DI on my board at all times now since we going ampless now. They had 0 - yes ZERO DI boxes and luckily one guitar player had an FRFR cab that had XLR out and I brought my extra pedalboard for the other guitar player used the DI I had with that one. If make a preamp, please included XLR out. It's an PITA otherwise unless you are prepared.
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Bass preamp pedals without DI's
- Thread starter garfoid
- Start date
I rarely if ever use an amp anymore, but it still resides in the band trailer just in case. I have a Sansamp BDDI that I go nowhere without and when I do use an amp, I feed the output of the BDDI to the input of the amp and I use the XLR to go to the FOH. When I don't use an amp, I use the XLR to go to the FOH. I am really not sure why I would ever want a preamp without a DI, I don't have to use it if I choose not to and I am always ready for whatever the house may or may not have.
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I use DCX bass and 1176 into a JDI if I’m ampless or out of my Mesa D800 plus if I’m using an amp. No concerns about either and they sound better than any other preamp with DI that I’ve used but YMMV
Same with me. I use a BB in front of a JDI DI, but also a Bearfoot sea blue EQ as a clean preamp/EQ
JazznFunk
Supporting Member
I've honestly never given it a second thought as to an XLR either being part of (or not part of) a preamp pedal's structure. If it's there.... cool. It's another option in case I do need it, depending on where I want the signal to the FOH to be sent, and what it contains or affected by. What I don't do very often is use the DI out of my amp head unless I absolutely have to... I've always used a separate DI, and put any preamps, etc ahead of it.
But since we're on the subject of preamps (regardless of feature sets/EQs) without DI's built in:
Sadowsky Outboard Preamp
Tech 21 VT Bass (original 2 models)
EBS ValveDrive (original model)
SushiBox MORE
Interestingly enough, later versions of the Sadowsky, VT Bass, and ValveDrive all ended up having XLRs added to their design structure. I briefly owned a Sadowsky with the XLR but it had issues with distortion out of all outputs that I never experienced with the non-XLR 'standard' versions, so it didn't last long in my toolbox.
But since we're on the subject of preamps (regardless of feature sets/EQs) without DI's built in:
Sadowsky Outboard Preamp
Tech 21 VT Bass (original 2 models)
EBS ValveDrive (original model)
SushiBox MORE
Interestingly enough, later versions of the Sadowsky, VT Bass, and ValveDrive all ended up having XLRs added to their design structure. I briefly owned a Sadowsky with the XLR but it had issues with distortion out of all outputs that I never experienced with the non-XLR 'standard' versions, so it didn't last long in my toolbox.
I like to have a preamp/DI last in chain. With fx loop. Most of the time I use active speakers. With the fx loop I can switch between the pedals preamp and another DI-less preamp or run one into the other. Practically splitting the pedal into two. Talking about features one uses, the other doesn't. May increase costs but I like to have one box at the end of the chain, that can deliver good sound on it's own in multiple ways. My other preamp probably will be swapped for another preamp/DI. No difference in size. Having no DI isn't a nogo. For me it happened just the other way around. I like the sound of my second preamp/DI and it just happens to have a DI. Bonus points for Backup capabilities.
Is it the costs that bother you? I have no idea what we are talking about impactwise. 10%? 20%? My 2nd preamp/DI was a bit under 300. I would have bought it for 250, I would have bought it for 350. But I rarely, hardly ever buy pedals because I urgently need them. Size? There are a lot of pedals around that could comfortably be housed in a box half the size than they actually are. Sometimes that space is filled with features that cover mre usecases.
Is it the costs that bother you? I have no idea what we are talking about impactwise. 10%? 20%? My 2nd preamp/DI was a bit under 300. I would have bought it for 250, I would have bought it for 350. But I rarely, hardly ever buy pedals because I urgently need them. Size? There are a lot of pedals around that could comfortably be housed in a box half the size than they actually are. Sometimes that space is filled with features that cover mre usecases.
a DI in a preamp is a requirement for me when selecting a Pre, as it's the last thing in my chain before splitting to stage rig and FOH. I prefer to have the amp and FOH separate so I can do whatever I want with my stage rig without affecting FOH in any way, and also in case of any amp failure FOH is also unaffected.
FYI a little while ago I was perusing this decade-old YouTube review of both Sadowsky pedals and Sadowsky jumped into the comments to correct something: "The volume pot is at the "input" to the active tone circuit. I recommend that you always start at 10. You only want to dial it back a bit if you are overdriving or clipping the input stage of your amplifier. Just dial it back enough to get a clean sound."
Separately, I vaguely recall a discussion thread in which someone had distortion issues using active basses but not passive ones.
I like having a DI as part of my setup just in case.
Mine comes either from my amp or a SansAmp.
I think of it as insurance in case my rig craps out or if the sound man doesn't have enough DI boxes or other disaster.
I don’t think that they are necessary by any means, and I spend many years gigging without ever worrying about it, and I used the ubiquitous Countryman 85 Di boxes that were everywhere back then.
I'm working on figuring out if a Sushi Box Neptunium is part of my standard gear, and it also has an XLR out so it might unseat the Sansamp!
Mine comes either from my amp or a SansAmp.
I think of it as insurance in case my rig craps out or if the sound man doesn't have enough DI boxes or other disaster.
I don’t think that they are necessary by any means, and I spend many years gigging without ever worrying about it, and I used the ubiquitous Countryman 85 Di boxes that were everywhere back then.
I'm working on figuring out if a Sushi Box Neptunium is part of my standard gear, and it also has an XLR out so it might unseat the Sansamp!
Same here. I never use the DI out on my amp. My sound I want going to FOH is my bass>pre pedal>JDI, so I don't want any other variables in line. If it's backline and they already have it set up with the amp DI then sure, but I'll still ask to use my configuration first.
JazznFunk
Supporting Member
I have always run the Sadowsky pre - regardless of the version - on '10' (full volume), and I don't use it with active basses (even ones with the onboard preamp bypassed). No need or desire to.
This distortion issue I experienced has never been present in either the original belt clip model of the preamp, or the later/newer 'stompbox' without XLR style as mentioned earlier in the thread. I've owned all 3 at some point over time so I had a nice knowledge base to use in troubleshooting and A/B'ing.
Ironically, one of the main basses I was using at the time which gave me the most trouble was a passive '75 Jazz Bass into the stompbox-with-XLR version. There should not have been distortion, and I used the same bass with other preamps as well and never experienced the issue. Even if I backed off of the volume, the distortion was present. I noticed it with other passive basses as well. I chalked it up to something in the design/topography of the XLR-laden version and sold it. I never could get it to work cleanly, no matter what I tried. I even tried messing with pickup height and it didn't help. There was never any 'breakup' going straight into my amp, or using other preamps. -shrug-
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JazznFunk
Supporting Member
I will use the DI out on the amp in a pinch or as a last resort, if I have the option of pre/post EQ to A/B the differences, or if the EQ on the amp is needed to solve a problem of some sort.
I only use a preamp with DB when I will not be using an amplifier, so yes I need a DI out just to KISS. I use the L.R. Baggs Paracoustic DI. My DB has no volume knob, but the Baggs does
Making a pedal there are other costs rather than the parts costs that take into the equation of making a pedal (or dozens/hundreds). If there is a DI out, the circuit needs more circuitry and parts but it also takes longer to make them (man hours) which drives the price of a product up. If I end up adding a DI out plus a few features for the DI, this means that the price of the unit could raise enough to make it more expensive than it needs to be (in case it doesn't have that DI out).
I don't conceptually understand PREAMPS for bass that don't have a DI output XLR. I can't tell you how relived others seem to be when I walk in for jams, meetups, casual sessions, and occasionally gigs with no amp and XLR-equipped preamp in hand and there's no anxiety or hesitation whatsoever when I say, "Yep, I've got quarter-inch and XLR output. Whatever you need. I've got it". NO ISSUES. I don't come to gigs bringing issues. Nobody needs to dig around yet again in soundperson racks, gigbacks and stuff to get me going, and I get to playing the music quicker and easier for me and everyone else.
Thank you. This is very helpful, as well as many other answers from our fellow bass-players. I'm deciding if I should include a DI out, and if so, do I also need to include a Ground Lift switch as well as a switch for pre-post EQ, etc..., not to mention the space which it might be tight or just not possible to accommodate the larger XLR plug.
The Sadowsky SBP-1 (and I presume the SPB-2) has two modes.
With the footswitch set OFF, the output level = input level at both the XLR and 1/4” amp output. It doesn’t drop the level like most DIs and the mute switch still works. The pedal doesn’t pass signal if there’s no battery, so it must use an input buffer.
With the footswitch ON, but the EQ at 0 when the Volume is 10, again the output = input. Since the EQ is boost only, any tweaks will raise the output level at both jacks. The volume knob lowers the level if needed to match the bypassed level or as Roger wrote the preamp is clipping from a too hot input.
With the footswitch set OFF, the output level = input level at both the XLR and 1/4” amp output. It doesn’t drop the level like most DIs and the mute switch still works. The pedal doesn’t pass signal if there’s no battery, so it must use an input buffer.
With the footswitch ON, but the EQ at 0 when the Volume is 10, again the output = input. Since the EQ is boost only, any tweaks will raise the output level at both jacks. The volume knob lowers the level if needed to match the bypassed level or as Roger wrote the preamp is clipping from a too hot input.
I use a separate DI because they’re just stupid easy to get hold of. I’ve never had an amplifier DI that I’ve ever liked, and I’m not looking for any special out of a DI other than getting me to the desk, so it’s not really a consideration when buying a pedal/processor whatever. I’m going to plug that thing right into my separate DI and be done.
Preamp pedals that were made prior to the 1980s did not have XLR outputs. Most pedals marketed as preamps were really what we call boosters nowadays, with limited or no EQ control like the DOD Bifet pedal I posted above. For that matter, both guitar and bass amps didn’t have XLR outs back then…just 1/4” for a long time.
Magnavox SVT…preamp out intended mainly for slaving multiple heads.
Today’s SVT VR adds a DI.
The first amp I owned with an XLR out was a Traynor TS-120B, post-EQ DI, early 80s
