Bass preamp pedals without DI's

[Thunderthumbs73]

If you’re using an amp, sure. But if you’re using the DI out on the amp, then why do you want the DI out on the preamp? It’s horses for courses. I’ve done all of the above and my current setup sounds great and works great. Like you said, everyone needs to do what works best for them.

DI/Pre/post. My Alembic has a Pre/post XLR toggle. But, my point is that in this connected modern musical paradigm where SOMEHOW the bass signal is always going to the board to go out through FOH and elsewhere, almost no matter whether it's a combo, a head and cab or some pedalboard ampless setup, why any bass PREAMP doesn't have an XLR which is commonly used connection paradigm is something I don't understand as useful. I can see literally NO practical value or improvement of a bass preamp by NOT having an XLR out on it. In 2025, and because it's not 2000, or 1990 or 1980, it just seems like an under-conceptualized oversight for product detail on modern bass preamps to NOT have an XLR out, in whatever form factor that preamp comes in.

Instead of having to "prove" why this type of gear should have an XLR out, it may be more insightful to hear someone's effort to compellingly explain (or "prove") why you SHOULDN'T or wouldn't want to have an XLR out on a bass preamp.

We do whatever works for us, I guess. Enjoy!

 

[J Wilson]

How many times did I see on gigs where there was a sound system contractor (not the band), guys could have very well thought out rigs, some of the rack preamps had Jensen transformer XLR outs, etc., . . . . and part-way through sound check, somebody would run up, unplug this and that, and run them through a little passive Whirlwind direct box, 'yeah, THAT's better'.

 

[projectapollo]

Tone Hammer DI is my choice. Can be powered three ways. I carry a Stage Bug as well just in case.

 

[AK Bass Guy]

...while we're bashing DI, I want to add insult to injury:

In my humble layman's opinion, the main thing about the DI was to provide a balanced signal. And probably buffer the signal to a different impedance.

For one single reason: The mixing desk is located about 100 feet away from the stage. The signal from your bass will go from the instrument to the stage box and from there through a multicore to the mixing desk. Since it's a fairly weak instrument level signal, an unbalanced one can (and will) pick up interference when traveling those cable lengths through a crowd, and when you amplify it, you'll amplify the interference along with it. A balanced signal will cut out the interference gathered between the DI box and the mixing desk.

But we're living in 2025. I don't know when I've seen the last multicore. FOH techs who run the X32 are considered oldschool. Stage boxes are digital and the connection to the mixer is either wireless or through a network cable. The balanced signal from the DI box only travels the short distance to the stage box, and from there it does not matter if the signal is balanced or unbalanced, because the first thing it sees is A/D conversion.

Yes it’s 2025, but there are still plenty of venues using copper. Also using a DI is still professional industry standard whether you are plugging into a digital stage box or copper split.
The DI is not only there to run a balanced signal it also properly impedance balanced signal.
Another thing to keep in mind is unbalanced signal recommended maximum length is generally 15’-25’, depending on who you talk to.

So the TLDR is if your sending signal to FOH use a DI.

 

[agedhorse]

...while we're bashing DI, I want to add insult to injury:

In my humble layman's opinion, the main thing about the DI was to provide a balanced signal. And probably buffer the signal to a different impedance.

For one single reason: The mixing desk is located about 100 feet away from the stage. The signal from your bass will go from the instrument to the stage box and from there through a multicore to the mixing desk. Since it's a fairly weak instrument level signal, an unbalanced one can (and will) pick up interference when traveling those cable lengths through a crowd, and when you amplify it, you'll amplify the interference along with it. A balanced signal will cut out the interference gathered between the DI box and the mixing desk.

But we're living in 2025. I don't know when I've seen the last multicore. FOH techs who run the X32 are considered oldschool. Stage boxes are digital and the connection to the mixer is either wireless or through a network cable. The balanced signal from the DI box only travels the short distance to the stage box, and from there it does not matter if the signal is balanced or unbalanced, because the first thing it sees is A/D conversion.

Balanced inputs are the defacto standard for even semi/-professional PA systems. Balanced signals have many advantages, and on larger stages (especially pro touring applications) with cable routing taken into account, it’s not uncommon to use 50-100 feet of copper to get to a stage box. The ability to lift the signal ground on a balanced signal is reason alone to go balanced.

Also, a preamp-DI designed for pro applications will usually have a different and more comprehensive input-output feature set because the needs are more intensive.

Making a pedal there are other costs rather than the parts costs that take into the equation of making a pedal (or dozens/hundreds). If there is a DI out, the circuit needs more circuitry and parts but it also takes longer to make them (man hours) which drives the price of a product up. If I end up adding a DI out plus a few features for the DI, this means that the price of the unit could raise enough to make it more expensive than it needs to be (in case it doesn't have that DI out).

Ballpark, it adds $20-$30 to the retail price to add a quality DI output.

Yes it’s 2025, but there are still plenty of venues using copper. Also using a DI is still professional industry standard whether you are plugging into a digital stage box or copper split.
The DI is not only there to run a balanced signal it also properly impedance balanced signal.
Another thing to keep in mind is unbalanced signal recommended maximum length is generally 15’-25’, depending on who you talk to.

So the TLDR is if your sending signal to FOH use a DI.

Correct, on everything IME.

 

[el murdoque]

Balanced inputs are the defacto standard for even semi/-professional PA systems. Balanced signals have many advantages, and on larger stages (especially pro touring applications) with cable routing taken into account, it’s not uncommon to use 50-100 feet of copper to get to a stage box. The ability to lift the signal ground on a balanced signal is reason alone to go balanced.

Also, a preamp-DI designed for pro applications will usually have a different and more comprehensive input-output feature set because the needs are more intensive.

Thank you for that insight. I said mine was a layman's opinion - and in my personal experience, which only reaches to stages for 1500-3000 people in attendance, my personal DI cable runs were mostly less than 10'. The stage box I plug into mostly sits just below the drum riser and the position of me and my amp are right next to that.

A hundred feet of copper is a very strong reason to go balanced and buffered.

 

[winston]

I like preamps with XLR outs, however the usefulness of many is diminished for my purposes if:

A) they can't run on 48v phantom power in addition to battery/AC, and
B) they don't have a transformer to decouple input/output, so they are still susceptible to noise that flipping the ground lift, or plugging into same outlet as other FX/amp - doesn't solve, so I'll still need to use a passive transformer DI at the end of the chain.

 

[agedhorse]

I like preamps with XLR outs, however the usefulness of many is diminished for my purposes if:

A) they can't run on 48v phantom power in addition to battery/AC, and
B) they don't have a transformer to decouple input/output, so they are still susceptible to noise that flipping the ground lift, or plugging into same outlet as other FX/amp - doesn't solve, so I'll still need to use a passive transformer DI at the end of the chain.

Operating off of phantom power generally isn’t practical except for the simplest devices due to the very low available current. This is not a balanced output issue but tied directly to the P-48 standard.

In most cases, transformer isolation is rarely necessary these days, though there are rare exceptions. For these rare cases, a 1:1 audio isolation transformer in line with the DI output is a better solution because of the dual electrostatic shields within the isolation transformer that is not present in most passive Di’s.

 

[agedhorse]

Thank you for that insight. I said mine was a layman's opinion - and in my personal experience, which only reaches to stages for 1500-3000 people in attendance, my personal DI cable runs were mostly less than 10'. The stage box I plug into mostly sits just below the drum riser and the position of me and my amp are right next to that.

A hundred feet of copper is a very strong reason to go balanced and buffered.

Our analog rigs were 200 feet of main trunk plus 50 feet of monitor split trunk, plus stage boxes of between 50 and 75 feet, and then the mic cables themselves. The capacitive loading on the DI’s for this kind of pro application (and this is entry level pro) is substantial.