The Ali Frazier video is just amazing. Pederson was my favorite, just stunningly good, and what stamina, like riding the tour de france. He could play slow or fast and always make it sound just right, as well as impossible lol
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Double Bass Bass solos at burning tempos
- Thread starter mcfrankson
- Start date
I find that the bow helps me get through solos in fast bop tunes. I don't try to play 1/8's all the way through.
Make sure you feel the tempo in big beats. Don't tense up, and like what's been said already play to your strengths. Take your time getting into your solo, use the melody of the tune as a starting point, and don't be afraid to play with the rhythm. That's a way to make it interesting without having to play flashy licks. Check out Bob Hurst's solo on Autumn Leaves from Wynton Marsalis' Standard Time Vol. 1. You should be checking that out anyways cuz that rhythm section is KILLIN!!!
In my opinion it depends on what your sound is or what sound you're going for. I personally do not enjoy bass solos at burning tempos. It is athletically pleasing I suppose but as many have posted before, the musicality must be there. Usually, the horns and chordal instruments cover the many notes blazing at fast tempos portion of the tune. As the bass player we have the opportunity to do something different. Playing simple and very strong melodies over fast changes can be very effective as well as simply taking walking solos. A good walking solo can encompass so much music and allows an audience to dig the groove and pay attention to the rhythm. It's a good solo to have first before the other soloists as well because again, the audience becomes more aware of the rhythm which actually makes the horn and chord players sound even better when they start burning through their eighth note lines.
In my opinion it depends on what your sound is or what sound you're going for. I personally do not enjoy fast bass solos at burning tempos. It is athletically pleasing I suppose but as many have posted before, the musicality must be there. Usually, the horns and chordal instruments cover the "many notes blazing at fast tempos" portion of the tune. As bass players we have the opportunity to do something different. Playing simple and very strong melodies over fast changes can be very effective as well as simply taking walking solos. A good walking solo can encompass so much music and allows an audience to dig the groove and pay attention to the rhythm. It's a good solo to have first before the other soloists as well because again, the audience becomes more aware of the rhythm which actually makes the horn and chord players sound even better when they start burning through their eighth note lines.
hairscrambled
Commercial User
Yep. Most people I play with wouldn't assume you want a bass solo on a burner unless you asked. And if you do trading with the drummer is a good strategy - Like Christian McBride on Cherokee above.
+1
"Bob'll jump up real high and play some saxophone ****, he didn't give a ****." -Marcus Roberts
To my ears, Bob is sort of piping all other bassists on soloing like a horn player. Articulation, sound, feel, melodicism, musicality... he has it all, at any tempo I've heard. This is of course just my opinion, but I think what he's doing (and has been doing) should be carefully studied by anyone trying to solo "like a horn player" at all, regardless of tempo.
On the other hand, I've never ever heard Jimmy Garrison play anything like that...
In terms of melodic, horn-like bass solos at any tempo and especially at "burning tempos", Red Mitchell had it all. Not just IMO, but in the opinion of other great soloists on other instruments such as Jim Hall, who said Red's solos were on a par with Lester Young's.
I think one of the biggest problems for jazz bassists trying for the speed (and melodicism) achieved by some of the best bass soloists is over articulation with the right hand. As wonderful as Niels' solos were, usually every note was articulated with the fingers of his right hand; sometimes with three fingers. Scott LaFaro usually used two, but again, clearly articulated in separate pizz hits on the strings, although some left hand bending of the notes came into play in his work. Even before steel strings, PU's, amps and lower string heights became the turning point for jazz bassists, (at least allowing them to play faster with a bit more legato) Red was sounding very horn-like tuned in fourths, unamped with guts adjusted to what we would consider medium high "action" today. So, my point is that the left hand can be doing some things to help the flow, color, dymamics and, yes, speed. Slurs, glissandi, triplets and a more concentrated effort in making the notes ring a bit longer via your left fingers' strength in holding down the strings long enough for execution of the musical idea. I achieved at least some of this over the years by half timing (as some of you have said) parts of my solos at fast tempos until I was able to develop the flow and for some muscle memory (huge factor, IMO, at "blazing speeds") to kick in. So, in a nutshell, less concentration on articulating every note with the fingers of the right hand, and more on what you can do with the fingers of the left hand. Ray Brown called this "matching the hands". Matching the strength of the right hand with strength of the left.
Jim Hall said once in a Downbeat Magazine interview that he learned a lot about this whole legato, melodic, left hand approach to soloing on the guitar just by "watching Red Mitchell play the bass".
EDIT: PW Red Mitchell Rant # 1,023.
I think one of the biggest problems for jazz bassists trying for the speed (and melodicism) achieved by some of the best bass soloists is over articulation with the right hand. As wonderful as Niels' solos were, usually every note was articulated with the fingers of his right hand; sometimes with three fingers. Scott LaFaro usually used two, but again, clearly articulated in separate pizz hits on the strings, although some left hand bending of the notes came into play in his work. Even before steel strings, PU's, amps and lower string heights became the turning point for jazz bassists, (at least allowing them to play faster with a bit more legato) Red was sounding very horn-like tuned in fourths, unamped with guts adjusted to what we would consider medium high "action" today. So, my point is that the left hand can be doing some things to help the flow, color, dymamics and, yes, speed. Slurs, glissandi, triplets and a more concentrated effort in making the notes ring a bit longer via your left fingers' strength in holding down the strings long enough for execution of the musical idea. I achieved at least some of this over the years by half timing (as some of you have said) parts of my solos at fast tempos until I was able to develop the flow and for some muscle memory (huge factor, IMO, at "blazing speeds") to kick in. So, in a nutshell, less concentration on articulating every note with the fingers of the right hand, and more on what you can do with the fingers of the left hand. Ray Brown called this "matching the hands". Matching the strength of the right hand with strength of the left.
Jim Hall said once in a Downbeat Magazine interview that he learned a lot about this whole legato, melodic, left hand approach to soloing on the guitar just by "watching Red Mitchell play the bass".
EDIT: PW Red Mitchell Rant # 1,023.
Cool. That's some righteous right-down-to-the-nitty-gritty technical advice right there!
So, how much money do we owe you, Paul?
There's a live recording of NHOP playing "Younger than Springtime" with OP, I believe also from Montreux '77 (could be wrong, here). I always found it pretty inspiring.
My right hand has always been about 10x faster than my left. "Overarticulation" is probably as close as I come to a "style" (and not one nearly as impressive as NHOP or Gomez).
Time to hit the 'shed.
So, how much money do we owe you, Paul?
There's a live recording of NHOP playing "Younger than Springtime" with OP, I believe also from Montreux '77 (could be wrong, here). I always found it pretty inspiring.
My right hand has always been about 10x faster than my left. "Overarticulation" is probably as close as I come to a "style" (and not one nearly as impressive as NHOP or Gomez).
Time to hit the 'shed.
There's this Bill Evans "Live at the Maintenance Shop" with Marc Johnson. Maybe some of the best on-camera stuff of Johnson from those days. I was initially struck by how much of the left hand was involved with sounding the notes. And slides, hammer-ons and pull-offs do lengthen and connect tones while buying speed.
Agreed AUTOMAT. Invalid Link Removed is a great example of what you are talking about. Awesome!!!
The setup of your bass has a bunch to do with it too.
My current setup (high strings, guts) really doesn't allow for lots of the sustain necessary for left hand acrobatics. I've had to do some relearning and rethinking when I switched my setup. I've also been doing many of my gigs either without an amp or just a mic into the house. You just can't pull off some of this stuff and you'll frustrate yourself if you try. In this instance I've found more success thinking of my bass as a pitched drum.
Here's a solo from Jimmy Garrison. Totally different approach but equally engaging.
What I find most interesting about all of this is all of these soloists are great, all have very different setups and sounds, all have very different approaches, and all have very individual voices. To me that's the key. Find YOUR voice.
The setup of your bass has a bunch to do with it too.
My current setup (high strings, guts) really doesn't allow for lots of the sustain necessary for left hand acrobatics. I've had to do some relearning and rethinking when I switched my setup. I've also been doing many of my gigs either without an amp or just a mic into the house. You just can't pull off some of this stuff and you'll frustrate yourself if you try. In this instance I've found more success thinking of my bass as a pitched drum.
Here's a solo from Jimmy Garrison. Totally different approach but equally engaging.
What I find most interesting about all of this is all of these soloists are great, all have very different setups and sounds, all have very different approaches, and all have very individual voices. To me that's the key. Find YOUR voice.
I've been digging Scott Colley lately for LH articulation. He can play at some pretty high speeds - and it doesn't sound forced. Very smooth and legato sound.
Matt
Matt
Yeah, Fingers, watched that Nardis clip for the millionith time. Rippin'. Pretty well shot, too.
I saw Scott Colley play live a couple months ago. Very smooth. His fast was fast, but it was smooth. Very relaxed sounding.
I saw Scott Colley play live a couple months ago. Very smooth. His fast was fast, but it was smooth. Very relaxed sounding.
I think an important part of increasing your speed/dexterity is to practice very slowly. Have you every watched a sprinter warm up? They walk high-steps at a snail's pace, paying attention to every muscle movement, being sure to avoid even the slightest bit of wasted energy. Take something that's already written out (scale exercise, Omnibook, whatever), and play it at a comfortable tempo, paying attention to both hands (left hand fingerings, right hand pizz). Slow the tempo way down, play it, and listen to your body, look for tensions that need to be relaxed, use the same fingerings that you would want at the fast tempo, but pay attention to avoid wasted movements (i.e. bringing your left hand fingers further off the strings than the minimum needed). Gradually speed it up keeping all of these things in mind the whole while.
...and listen to all the other good advice already posted!
...and listen to all the other good advice already posted!
The suggestion of working from quarter note rhythms was already mentioned. I try to do that most of the time and make them sound like straight eighths. I got the idea from Larry Grenadier playing It's alright with me on "Art of the trio 2" By Brad Mehldau. He's most of the time doing these things when they play on face melting speed. Of course he's sometimes making tricky rhythmical modulations and most of the time he sounds kind of abstract. But because TS was asking for recordings to listen to, start with this one and go through some more of Mehldau's records and live recordings (I remember I saw a concert video of them playing The way you look tonight at tempo 5.000)
