Bass sound on stages

[GreyBeard]

Find a way to tilt the cabs towards your head and not your back. You'll hear yourself then.

 

[Lostgallifreyan]

It is virtually inaudible from 20 feet away. No problem with the neighbors, or cranky soundmen either.

The transducer is a lead weight that creates a vibration of the platform giving the concussive feel of very loud speakers. When balanced with IEM it gives the sensation like you are in front of several SVTs. The wattage is needed to move the weight.

Having done a a little research on Bassboard multi-driver platform, they are rated a 600 watts. The Buttkicker was a larger platform and had a single driver.

But to your point, as it aged after15 years the platform got a little buzzy as the shock mounts showed signs of wear but nothing more annoying that a drum snare rattle.

Thanks. Put like that it does sound very viable. It sounds like effort went into the design to avoid losses in unwanted sound. I like any tactile feedback I can get, as well as audio, so I'm never going to forget about this. I might never need to invest in one but it's good to know about them.

I just remembered one nice experience that makes me think a feed from the drummer would be good to have there too. He was a good drummer.. But on that stage there was no danger of not feeling the pulse. It was wide, raised on scaffolding, with a metal roof over it. It seemed to turn everything into a giant cab.

 

[Bringindafunk]

I haven't read all of the comments so I'm not sure if it's been said yet, but your guitarist's eq could potentially be phasing you out. I played with one guitarist whose distortion channel was very bassy and I would completely disappear when he used that. When he switched to his clean channel, I was suddenly very present and almost too loud. It was very frustrating for me.

 

[Bill Murray]

Just get In Ears, you’ll never look back.

 

[Lostgallifreyan]

In my experience the best way to solve that is to move around a bit to find a sweetspot and THEN resort to eq if it's still necessary. Especially if any of the eq'd signal goes to FOH (which it will unless you only send a clean, pre-eq DI signal to FOH). Sending a heavily eq'd "room corrected" signal to the mixing desk is rarely a good idea.

That's interesting, I like to use parametric EQ in an effect chain with a bit of prior compression followed by a gentle valve-like overdrive before that local EQ (is all done in an Oberheim GM-400). This is entirely about modifying the bass tone to get what I want, independently of any room. I think of it as a formant, like the cabinet of a piano. It goes where the instrument goes. When listening to recordings I often want to EQ it again, but a basic graphic EQ is enough. The last amp box I built has a DI panel in the back so I can send the intended instrument sound, on the basis that I'd trust whoever got it to do with it as they needed, once they'd heard what I heard on phones so they knew what I was hoping to get to other people's ears. I can use the raw headphone feed out of the Oberheim GM-400. That way I get the timbre and dynamic range I need to play right. If that failed, all bets would be off.

If I was using a cab stack I'd avoid one or two obvious nasties, then leave it alone. Any room or stage will have its own character, and I'd not spend a lot of time trying to fight against it.

 

[juancaminos]

In all my years of playing in the Phoenix Metropolitan area one venue gave me that problem. It had a great stage. But the roof was way higher at the opposite side of the stage. Not sure if this had anything to do with it. Man I did not like playing there!

 

[jmlee]

In the photo in the first post, all the EQ knobs are at 9 or 10 o'clock. Darned peculiar setting for a GK.

 

[mrcbass]

are both situations indoors or outdoors? I find most concrete stages tend to be outdoors and vice versa

For these examples, both indoors. But I have experienced the same type of differences outdoors. When I'm on a wood stage, it sounds and feels great; when I'm on concrete, I can barely hear myself. In my examples, the concrete "stage" was just some floor space in the venue. The floor had some sort of faux or maybe real wood flooring, but the foundation was concrete.

 

[coy garcia]

I used to have a hard time hearing myself on stage with my boogie 115 and 210 cabs....Now I use a small BBC112 cab which is a downfiring 112 at 20 lbs with lots of mids and I can always hear myself onstage well. It radiates the sound onto the stage or floor and spreads out well. For what it's worth

 

[Loring]

For these examples, both indoors. But I have experienced the same type of differences outdoors. When I'm on a wood stage, it sounds and feels great; when I'm on concrete, I can barely hear myself. In my examples, the concrete "stage" was just some floor space in the venue. The floor had some sort of faux or maybe real wood flooring, but the foundation was concrete.

It probably does have to do with your eq - I usually set mine fairly flat but when I’m on a resonant stage (ie hollow with usually wood on top) I tend to roll off the bottom similar to what you have going on. Each room is different so I start fairly neutral and roll off some bass if the room is too boomy or mushy sounding.

 

[Marko 1]

All 4 bands are cut in this picture I think. that's not good for cutting through.

Why are you cutting all your mids and lows? If those EQ settings are what you use, they might be the problem right there. You won’t need as much volume when your EQ is properly set up.

I also notice the "contour" switch is up... isn't that also a mid-scoop?

 

[InhumanResource]

I also notice the "contour" switch is up... isn't that also a mid-scoop?

Yep typically it is!

 

[erayser]

I guess I need to dig into it a bit more. I know while Buttkicker still makes the transducers, they no longer make the platforms. I wasn’t aware there were other manufacturers. Thanks for your response.

You're welcome!

Do not forget to look into BackBeat as well...

BackBeat - Play Bass, Feel Bass

The Buttkicker brand isn't the only option... I've experimented with different transducers in making my own bassboard platform.

I've bought Buttkickers, AuraSound AST-2B-4, and Dayton Audio BST-1 transducers. Not sure if I got a bad buttkicker. It worked good, but it was noisy compared to cheaper options. I've tried different sized boards... using plywood and mdf because I can get larger size boards for less. I finally got the combo that worked best for me. 24"x24" ply with 2 Dayton BST-1 transducers (less than $100 at the time) in series with rubber feet. It worked great for me... but wasn't perfect... yet. Since the board doesn't always sit flat from moving around on the board, I use 24"x35" carpet... and it perfectly fit the board, and volume/pedalboard. This helped a lot no matter where I stood on the board.

After I got feel I was satisfied with, I covered the board with speaker box carpet. Then I put a removable hinge on the bottom to attach my bass head for ease of transporting. The weight wasn't bad, but it was hard to carry, so I installed handles. That helped, but still hard on the fingers... so I put hooks next to the transducers so I can attach a heavy duty strap to carry it around my shoulders. Everything in the pic below (minus the 4 channel mixer that I use for home silent practice), can be carried in one trip... with a free hand for coffee.

Playing on a silent stage for the first time was different... but I love tech and experimenting... and this is how my silent stage setup evolved. I'm not sure what I'll experiment with next... but for now... this setup is near perfect for me... and the immersion makes playing on a silent stage so much fun. Ohhh... and I also use a BackBeat with my setup. Sometimes I'll input FOH on my BackBeat so I can feel the drum kick and snare. Here are some pics of my setup...

 

[dbsfgyd1]

The Buttkicker brand isn't the only option... I've experimented with different transducers in making my own bassboard platform.

I've bought Buttkickers, AuraSound AST-2B-4, and Dayton Audio BST-1 transducers. Not sure if I got a bad buttkicker. It worked good, but it was noisy compared to cheaper options. I've tried different sized boards... using plywood and mdf because I can get larger size boards for less. I finally got the combo that worked best for me. 24"x24" ply with 2 Dayton BST-1 transducers (less than $100 at the time) in series with rubber feet. It worked great for me... but wasn't perfect... yet. Since the board doesn't always sit flat from moving around on the board, I use 24"x35" carpet... and it perfectly fit the board, and volume/pedalboard. This helped a lot no matter where I stood on the board.

After I got feel I was satisfied with, I covered the board with speaker box carpet. Then I put a removable hinge on the bottom to attach my bass head for ease of transporting. The weight wasn't bad, but it was hard to carry, so I installed handles. That helped, but still hard on the fingers... so I put hooks next to the transducers so I can attach a heavy duty strap to carry it around my shoulders. Everything in the pic below (minus the 4 channel mixer that I use for home silent practice), can be carried in one trip... with a free hand for coffee.

Playing on a silent stage for the first time was different... but I love tech and experimenting... and this is how my silent stage setup evolved. I'm not sure what I'll experiment with next... but for now... this setup is near perfect for me... and the immersion makes playing on a silent stage so much fun. Ohhh... and I also use a BackBeat with my setup. Sometimes I'll input FOH on my BackBeat so I can feel the drum kick and snare. Here are some pics of my setup...

Cool rig. Really nice. Thanks for posting. I appreciate the info.

 

[4Mal]

2) If you don't have to tweak your amp regularly, reverse your rig. Put the rack on the ground. Then stack your two cabs VERTICALLY on top of it. (If that makes you queasy just set the rack to one side and stack the cabs on the ground/stage.) But make sure you stack them vertically. In other words, do it like this. It will make all the difference in the world in how you hear your rig.

This... except lose the rack...

 

[pepj]

I couple to the floor unless the stage is hollow and weak.
The room walls are more an issue, potentially

 

[Terry McGill]

So I'm finding that at certain venues, I can't hear my cab very well on stage - even at volumes that I'm asked to turn down from. It's hard to determine why this happens when at some places, I get to enjoy a nice full sound that feels too loud on stage, but is fine in the mix.

I always use one or two 210 cabs that sit on a metal amp stand so my cabs are somewhat isolated from the "stage". Some variation of this:
View attachment 4812329

This weekend I played two gigs; first was in doors on a floor that had some synthetic "wood" on concrete. Could not hear a thing all night. Yesterday I played indoors on a wooden platform stage, and it was a great big enjoyable sound.

I got to thinking that perhaps the "stage" being hollow and wooden helps this (I can feel the bass in my feet). It seems the stand is transferring some energy to the floor, which I was not expecting.

So first is there any truth to this "theory", that a wooden stage helps boost the bass output?

If so, could I accomplish some of that benefit by building a little hollow box for under my stand - or would it need to be bigger than I'd want to manage for it work?

Thanks

 

[Terry McGill]

Rent 2 markbass single 15 cabs throw them in place of those lil 10,s at that same gig....then report back