Bass speakers in a guitar cab

[cliffbass1]

I'm looking into getting a 4x12 cab and i'm thinking of just buying a guitar cab and putting in some neodymium speakers . They have a few mesa/boogie guitar cabs on musicgoround.com, so i'd probably get of of those. Thoughts ? Yay or Nay, oh and i don't have a lot of money too do this or i would just go buy a new bass 4x12 cabinet.

Thx Guys

 

[Vincent P]

The only thing I would worry about, is any possible tone adjustments that would need to be made in the way of further sealing the cab, or adding some insulation. Good luck.

 

[Sundogue]

I'm looking into getting a 4x12 cab and i'm thinking of just buying a guitar cab and putting in some neodymium speakers . They have a few mesa/boogie guitar cabs on musicgoround.com, so i'd probably get of of those. Thoughts ? Yay or Nay, oh and i don't have a lot of money too do this or i would just go buy a new bass 4x12 cabinet.

Thx Guys

You need the T/S specs of the speakers to determine what kind of cab they work well in. Then you need to measure the internal cab volume and see if they would work in it.

If it's not a completely closed cabinet (a lot of guitar cabs are open back) you'll blow the speaker right away.

 

[cliffbass1]

You need the T/S specs of the speakers to determine what kind of cab they work well in. Then you need to measure the internal cab volume and see if they would work in it.

If it's not a completely closed cabinet (a lot of guitar cabs are open back) you'll blow the speaker right away.

well one of the cabs is a closed back (sealed) the other is a Half back (top is completely open, bottom is sealed) but it wouldnt be the hard to make a panel to cover up the open section, i guess i just have to pick the right speakers then thx

 

[billfitzmaurice]

I'm looking into getting a 4x12 cab and i'm thinking of just buying a guitar cab and putting in some neodymium speakers . They have a few mesa/boogie guitar cabs on musicgoround.com, so i'd probably get of of those. Thoughts ? Yay or Nay, oh and i don't have a lot of money too do this or i would just go buy a new bass 4x12 cabinet.

Thx Guys

The performance of a bass cab is 50/50 drivers and cab design. If you just throw some bass drivers into a guitar cab that's not specifically designed to work with them the results won't be very good.

 

[kraigo]

For me Bill Fitzmaurice always gets the last word except that I got to this thread late.

1) Definitely get a sealed cab.

2) Do some research. There is some threshold for the T/S parameters where you can get an idea of whether the speaker will work well with a sealed cabinet or not.

3) You will be more in the realm of a "60's sound" or "SVT" type thing, not a hi-fi thing. Something like an Eminence 3012LF would probably _NOT_ be a good speaker for the job. You might do better with something that's more of a "guitar" speaker that's known for a solid low end in a sealed cabinet.

4) You'll want to be mindful of how much power you're putting through the cabinet. A tube amp like an Ampeg V4B might be a complimentary combination. V4B's are cool amps that you probably wouldn't regret buying too much in any event.

5) Treat this as an experiment. It might or might not work out.

If it were me, I'd get the cab already loaded with speakers and leave it as-is for my experiments unless I had some speaker that I really wanted to try. So long as you don't blow it up you could recoup more of your cash if it doesn't work out at all for you or decide where you want to go with speakers if it is moving you in the sonic direction you want to go.

I think the idea has some merit if you're going in a Cream-era Jack Bruce or Lemmy from Motorhead type tone. Be prepared for it to not work out and work so you aren't too exposed financially in that scenario.

KO

 

[EastCoastThump]

... i guess i just have to pick the right speakers then thx

The thing is that "the right speaker" for a given box depends on what you want the cabinet (drivers + box) to deliver. A great bass driver in the wrong-sized box isn't going to equal a great cabinet.

For your purposes, a box that's too small (relative to the driver's Thiele/Small specs) will typically give you a cabinet with hampered bass response.

 

[funkytoe]

Look for a Fender GE-412 extension cab. 8 ohms. 300 watt rating. About $150 used. Lightweight (50 pounds or so). Sounds decent for bass with the stock Eminence speakers. These cabs were designed for de-tuned guitars and actually have decent bass response. You can also sub out the stock speakers for a set of basslites (S2012 or 2512) and they sound really great as a sealed cab. Very old school. Not as low as many modern bass cabs, but really punchy and fat.

Like I said, the GE-412 sounds pretty good for bass with the stock speakers alone. If you don't intend on sending more than 200 watts through it at 8 ohms, this really is a pretty decent choice. At only $150 on the used market, these are a real bargain.

 

[cliffbass1]

1) Definitely get a sealed cab.

2) Do some research. There is some threshold for the T/S parameters where you can get an idea of whether the speaker will work well with a sealed cabinet or not.

3) You will be more in the realm of a "60's sound" or "SVT" type thing, not a hi-fi thing. Something like an Eminence 3012LF would probably _NOT_ be a good speaker for the job. You might do better with something that's more of a "guitar" speaker that's known for a solid low end in a sealed cabinet.

4) You'll want to be mindful of how much power you're putting through the cabinet. A tube amp like an Ampeg V4B might be a complimentary combination. V4B's are cool amps that you probably wouldn't regret buying too much in any event.

5) Treat this as an experiment. It might or might not work out.


I think the idea has some merit if you're going in a Cream-era Jack Bruce or Lemmy from Motorhead type tone. Be prepared for it to not work out and work so you aren't too exposed financially in that scenario.

KO

Yeah i really like the old school tone, of Motorhead, and Geezer Bulter. I already have a all tube head it a mesa boogie 400+ which puts out 400 or so watts ( i still don't understand why MB states its a 500 watt wall tube head) Plus I'm a Mids guy, to me it just brings out the clarity of my notes thx guys for the help, i was pretty sure some was gonna be all negative and stuff or dude why dont you just build one, i did draw one up a few days ago though, again thx every body

 

[M0ses]

The performance of a bass cab is 50/50 drivers and cab design. If you just throw some bass drivers into a guitar cab that's not specifically designed to work with them the results won't be very good.

+1

 

[Calaverasgrande]

Bill Fitzmaurice knows what he talks about, but he has an engineers myopia (I should know, I have the same problem when it comes to computers!). Of course the Thiele-Small parameters should be taken into account to get the best efficiency and something approaching a flat transfer function. In the real world bass players (probably more than guitarists) have been swapping out speakers without regard for TS parameters for decades. I have rarely seen any major problem in this regard. The only ones I did have major problems with were very nice JBLs which did NOT want to be in a vented enclosure! In a sealed enclosure the xmax is limited by the internal air volume. In a vented enclosure the travel is a lot less limited by air pressure. In a very -very big cabinet you can exploit the travel of the woofer a lot. In more average 4x12 sealed cabs, which tend to be shallow, the internal air volume should be small enough to act as a spring. Of course some 4x12's have ports. Hiwatt comes to mind, some Mesas and I think some Genz Benz guitar 4x12 have ports as well.
I would also look into comparing the cost of 4 new 12" speakers with the prices of a used 4x12. I see 4x12 bass specific cabinets on CL all the time for way too little dough. I passed on a GK 4x12 a couple weeks ago. Only $150 but I dont have a lot of extra dough right now (cursewording taxes!).

 

[Jaco who?]

Or, just be patient and wait for a Peavey 412 tvx to show up on music go round. They sound really good, but people get tired of lugging them around.

 

[cliffbass1]

Or, just be patient and wait for a Peavey 412 tvx to show up on music go round. They sound really good, but people get tired of lugging them around.

yeah i saw a Ampeg 4x12 bass cabinet about 2 months ago on craigslist but i had too use my taxes on something other than gear

 

[MNAirHead]

I wouldn't..

IF you're looking for a cheap cab.. there's a GK 15 at the Roseville 'tard center.

I own one cab 1-12.. it was engineered for steel guitar.. then enclosed and ported for bass.

Does the job for some uses.. wasn't cheap or easy to fine tune.

T.

 

[Pilgrim]

I'm looking into getting a 4x12 cab and i'm thinking of just buying a guitar cab and putting in some neodymium speakers . They have a few mesa/boogie guitar cabs on musicgoround.com, so i'd probably get of of those. Thoughts ? Yay or Nay, oh and i don't have a lot of money too do this or i would just go buy a new bass 4x12 cabinet.

Thx Guys

There's one very simple answer: buy a BASS cab. Going at it the way you suggest is a waste of money and effort. If you can buy a guitar cab, you can buy a bass cab. Use Craigslist and Ebay.

 

[EricF]

Something to keep in mind...
The size of a 412 guitar cab is roughly equal to a 410 or 212 bass cab. A common 412 bass cab is typically the same size as an 810. This should start to give you a clue about the amount of internal volume you need for decent response out of four 12" speakers.

Based on this alone, I predict that you aren't going to be very happy with the result, and it will be your first (expensive) step into learning more about proper speaker cabinet design.

 

[silky smoove]

With the abundant number of commercially available bass cabinets that can be had to fit any budget (within reason), I don't see the point of trying to load a guitar cabinet with some as of yet undetermined bass speaker.

 

[rllefebv]

So much excellent advice in this thread, lotsa reasons why you shouldn't do it... Glad I didn't listen

'73 V4 Guitar cab loaded with Eminence DeltaLite 2512's (Thanks again johnk_10!!)... Gets the job done without breaking a sweat!

-robert

 

[Destructobot]

I have that same cab and a V2. My cab has two Weber silver bells (ceramic), one original emi, and one emi swamp thang. It pounds! I bet with 2512's it would just be monstrous.

 

[Calaverasgrande]

I am looking into swapping out my GK's speakers. Though the alnico magnets seem to have some "mojo" to them, I cant help but feeling that those poor speakers are not up to the task of my amps output. The only neo speakers I can find that will let me wire my cab in 4ohms (4x16 in parallel) are the mesa neos. All the other ones either cost several hundred or are only available in 8 ohm versions.
how are you guys wiring these cabs? parallel-series?