Does anybody have any experience with Clef gut strings? I like them on my 47 Kay and am thinking about getting a set for my carved bass.
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Double Bass Bass Strings for Playing Bluegrass music
- Thread starter born2glf
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Not with Clef strings, but I've played Lenzner, Gamut, Aquila, Dlugolecki, LaBella, Artone, Oliv, and Eudoxa.
If you like guts on plywood bass, you should like them on a carved bass. I have Gamut Pistoy A/D/G on a carved bass, and they're great for plucking. I love the way they *feel* bowed, but I'm afraid to take that bass to orchestra rehearsal because arco is so risky at my competence level.
Just perusing through the thread...
Maybe it's a regional thing out here on the west coast (USA), but I literally have never seen gut strings on DBs at festivals or jams...
I mostly see steel (color) metal wrapped strings, which I'm guessing are mostly TI or some other company's metal core strings of some sort.. I've seen just a few DBs using synthetics like I do, including some mixed sets, Innovation, Eurosonics, various wackers.
But I've never seen anyone playing guts, and this is among a fairly wide representation of festivals and jams.
Why would that be??? My guess is finances, but there may be other reasons too.
Maybe it's a regional thing out here on the west coast (USA), but I literally have never seen gut strings on DBs at festivals or jams...
I mostly see steel (color) metal wrapped strings, which I'm guessing are mostly TI or some other company's metal core strings of some sort.. I've seen just a few DBs using synthetics like I do, including some mixed sets, Innovation, Eurosonics, various wackers.
But I've never seen anyone playing guts, and this is among a fairly wide representation of festivals and jams.
Why would that be??? My guess is finances, but there may be other reasons too.
What? Are you trying to get me to load my ply into the car and drive cross-country to the west coast?
Because if you ever run into me at a jam or festival, that's what you'll see!
I wonder if you could make a connection between experience - possibly skill/dedication - w/ upright, and players w/ more familiarity may be likely to have guts? Just thinking that I don't often seem to encounter really good, experienced bassists at the jams and few festivals I've been to. Bass strings are expensive and don't really break/wear out. So a newer, more casual bassist may just stick with whatever is on the bass they bought. If buying strings, they might be put off by what they understand to be maintenance/durability issues. (Insignificant to nonexistent IME.)
A casual bassist might think, "Why spend $300 on a set of guts, when my current strings are OK." Whereas a more invested player will say, "It's only $300, and if I like it, I'l be deriving the benefit for the rest of my playing days."
Hmmm, I do see a lot of DB players who also play multiple other instruments. So perhaps DB isn't their primary musical interest, which may have a bearing on what they're willing to pay for strings. And also string maintenance and longevity might be a consideration. But essentially both of those explanations can resolve to finances.
Are guts extremely popular in the mid-west and east? Can someone estimate what percentage of bluegrass DB players out there use guts?
Are guts extremely popular in the mid-west and east? Can someone estimate what percentage of bluegrass DB players out there use guts?
Evah Pirazzi Slaps (synthetic guts) work, as do Eurosonic Lights...I had prehistoric gut strings on a one of my Kays back in the early 1990s. Maybe someday I'll get a set for my Czech Flatback nicknamed "BB" which stands for Bluegrass Bass. Right now, the Slaps are on it and they sound gutty.
I don't recall ever seeing gut strings on a bass in Bluegrass in the New England area. Spiros seem to be popular. I use Pirastro Obligatos on my Shen SB 100 bass and Evahs on the Juzek ply. Both are synthetic core metal wrapped strings. The first bass I had in the early 90s had Supernils. I hated them.
I'm no kind of heavy hitter, but I've gotten a lot of compliments on the sound of my (heavily built) no-name Romanian flatback with Bel Cantos, in the bluegrass genre.
I played bluegrass in New England for about 10 years and saw a bass with guts MAYBE once or twice in all that time. I don't know all the color codes so I have no idea what the steel strings I saw were.
I played bluegrass in New England for about 10 years and saw a bass with guts MAYBE once or twice in all that time. I don't know all the color codes so I have no idea what the steel strings I saw were.
1. They're more expensive than steels
2. I doubt that there is a "critical mass" of gut users, so few people are ever exposed to them (My brother-in-law played double bass on a gold record, and he'd never played a bass with guts until he played mine.)
3. How many brick-and-mortar shops even carry guts?
4. For those who are aware of guts, many are wary of tuning instabilities
Good analysis, Andy.
Just looked at String Emporium. EP slap guts are approx 50% more than spiros, but the synthetics are only $15 more.
Other than cost, I think your remaining points kinda reflect the level of - um - engagement by so many BG bassists. It is not at all unusual to hear/read commentary on old plys w/ guts as the way to make "the sound" on the old recordings. There is a reason folk pay a premium for old Kays. But I get the impression that a HUGE percentage of BG bassists (of course, NOT including anyone around here!
) are really pretty lackadaisical in their gear - as well as other aspects of their playing.
I don't know if this is a bigger issue with bassists than any other instrument. Of course you often encounter guitarists just strumming along boringly. But even a large number of them will ooh and ahh over the year and model number Gibson/Guild/Martin/etc someone brings (as tho it would make a darned bit of difference to them!)
Maybe it is just b/c there are so many fewer bassists than just about ay other BG instrument, but it often shocks me how frequently I'll encounter bassists who are playing tentatively, not driving the beat, etc. So when I see/hear someone like that, I never even get to the point of wondering what gear he is underutilizing.
And WRT your brick and mortar store point, I'll ask how many folk these days buy strings from....?
Kind of an interesting question. I guess I'm one of those disgusting converts who won't shut up. But for my money, it is hard to imagine why someone who plays primarily BG/oldtime would play anything BUT guts!
(If I weren't so darned lazy, I'd swap my EP slap guts out on my hybrid, instead of the EP weighs over Spiro E I currently have on it! Maybe just the D and G...)
Just looked at String Emporium. EP slap guts are approx 50% more than spiros, but the synthetics are only $15 more.
Other than cost, I think your remaining points kinda reflect the level of - um - engagement by so many BG bassists. It is not at all unusual to hear/read commentary on old plys w/ guts as the way to make "the sound" on the old recordings. There is a reason folk pay a premium for old Kays. But I get the impression that a HUGE percentage of BG bassists (of course, NOT including anyone around here!
) are really pretty lackadaisical in their gear - as well as other aspects of their playing. I don't know if this is a bigger issue with bassists than any other instrument. Of course you often encounter guitarists just strumming along boringly. But even a large number of them will ooh and ahh over the year and model number Gibson/Guild/Martin/etc someone brings (as tho it would make a darned bit of difference to them!)
Maybe it is just b/c there are so many fewer bassists than just about ay other BG instrument, but it often shocks me how frequently I'll encounter bassists who are playing tentatively, not driving the beat, etc. So when I see/hear someone like that, I never even get to the point of wondering what gear he is underutilizing.
And WRT your brick and mortar store point, I'll ask how many folk these days buy strings from....?
Kind of an interesting question. I guess I'm one of those disgusting converts who won't shut up. But for my money, it is hard to imagine why someone who plays primarily BG/oldtime would play anything BUT guts!
(If I weren't so darned lazy, I'd swap my EP slap guts out on my hybrid, instead of the EP weighs over Spiro E I currently have on it! Maybe just the D and G...
)
"My" luthier once mentioned, off hand, that his bluegrass playing clients "didn't like to spend money" on their basses (implicitly, like jazzers or classical players do.)
My casual association with a few "festival jam and around the campfire" bluegrass bass player types bears this out; cheap basses and cheap strings. I'm sure the bluegrass pros spend money on set ups, maintenance and strings but maybe not the campfire bros (and sisters?)
Plus, keeping guts in tune around the campfire is prolly "no picnic." Heh heh.
My casual association with a few "festival jam and around the campfire" bluegrass bass player types bears this out; cheap basses and cheap strings. I'm sure the bluegrass pros spend money on set ups, maintenance and strings but maybe not the campfire bros (and sisters?)
Plus, keeping guts in tune around the campfire is prolly "no picnic." Heh heh.
Some guts have nylon or steel outer wraps, so they don't look like plain gut. One reason you see fewer players using gut these days is that they are more expensive and tuning is very sensitive to temperature and humidity. That's bad news when playing festival stages (or picking in the parking lot)
Other than cost, I think your remaining points kinda reflect the level of - um - engagement by so many BG bassists. It is not at all unusual to hear/read commentary on old plys w/ guts as the way to make "the sound" on the old recordings. There is a reason folk pay a premium for old Kays. But I get the impression that a HUGE percentage of BG bassists (of course, NOT including anyone around here!
During the time I was actually playing Bluegrass - 1975-1978 - I didn't even know what kind of strings were on my bass. They were steel and were on the bass when I got it. I got blisters and then calluses.
You've put your finger on a factor which IMO separates the good musician from the mediocre - on any instrument and in any genre.
And WRT your brick and mortar store point, I'll ask how many folk these days buy strings from....?
A great question. Maybe we should have a poll? I buy mine online, but I know there are a significant number of musicians for whom strings, reeds, and other consumables are enough of a mystery (or simply don't matter much) that they just go to the music store and buy what the salesperson recommends. The two biggest string shops here in St. Louis don't carry gut strings, although I'm sure they could order some.
It would also be interesting to know the proportion of string players who buy guts to play baroque-ish music to those who play other music. Gamut, for example, is all about period music - you won't read much about Bluegrass on its website.
(If I weren't so darned lazy, I'd swap my EP slap guts out on my hybrid, instead of the EP weighs over Spiro E I currently have on it! Maybe just the D and G...
Well ... it looks like you've answered the big question!
there is a lot to digest here.. thanks everybody..
Is there any consensus on what the best string/value is? So that would probably exclude the guts and hybrids. Does anybody ever clean or boil strings like the bass guitar folks do?
Is there any consensus on what the best string/value is? So that would probably exclude the guts and hybrids. Does anybody ever clean or boil strings like the bass guitar folks do?
It's very subjective and subject to how you weigh the factors. Longevity is a factor, so paying $40 more for a set of strings that lasts twice as long is worth it to most of us. Tension and stiffness are factors. Slap-or-no-slap is a factor. Volume and brightness are factors. Sustain is a factor. Your bass is a big factor.
Also, keep in mind that hybrid , in bass strings, means "strings which can be used for pizz and arco." I think you may be defining hybrid differently.
To your question though, I believe that a used set of Spirocores would win "the best string/value" poll on this forum. They are relatively inexpensive, loud, bright, sustaining, and last a long time.
Yes, some do clean strings, although I think boiling is pretty unusual. I suspect most of us simply wipe them down on the bass, because removing and reinstalling is a fair amount of work.
