Bass VI, only B0–B2; How to Proceed?

[Riff Ranger]

After four years of buying, trying, and selling, I finally have my “must-haves” when it comes to bass gear. It feels great to put that feeling of missing something behind me. Now, I can just dream of “nice-to-haves”

I keep coming back to the idea of something like a Bass VI tuned BEADF#B, B0–B2. This would have (nearly) the range of a typical 6-string bass, but be played more like a Bass VI (down a string) or baritone guitar (down an octave). I’d really like to try it.

I can think of three ways to do something like this:

•String a baritone guitar with heavy, short scale bass strings—if the bridge and tuning machines can accommodate them.

•String a bass vi with heavy, short scale bass strings—if the bridge can accommodate them.

•String a typical 6-string bass with light, long scale strings.

I prefer about 30–36# tension per string anyway, and might prefer even less tension with this instrument, but that still looks like a .120 for that B0, and even 32” ball end to taper might not work with scale lengths shorter than 30”.

While I’m accustomed to substantial 5-string necks and routinely play power chords even down near the nut, 6-string necks have still always seemed wide to me and their wide string spacing (relative to that of a baritone guitar or bass vi) might prove a bit much with chords as the norm; but I have plenty of options (including inexpensive ones) with 6-strings, and I know I can just tune the top two strings down a semitone each and go for it. Options among baritone guitars and bass vi instruments get even more limited if we consider my slight aesthetic distaste for Jazzmaster-style baritones and Fender/Squier basses vi (both Ibanez and Schecter have done bass vi instruments more to my taste, but they’re not readily available).

I’ll throw a budget of a 1,000 USD out there, though I suspect options for baritone guitars and basses vi are quite limited at any budget.

I imagine this as the featured instrument in a style of rock music in the realm of Joy Division and the Cure (when Robert Smith plays a bass vi), only heavier: baritone vocals; guitar primarily in a sparse, supportive, textural role; keys used similarly; possibly a second, more conventional bass tuned BEAD (I already own good candidates for the role if called for); huge drums. I’d like this instrument to get along well with effects. As I imagine keys and possibly a conventional bass in the picture, huge low end is not a necessity.

What would you suggest I try? Thanks in advance for your thoughtful input

 

[spatters]

I would buy a Bass VI or clone:
GuitarBass VS - Harley Benton

Then buy a 7-string drop tune set from Kalium and chuck the top string, or an 8-string set and chuck the top two.
7 String | Kalium Music
8 String | Kalium Music

You might have to add spacers to the low strings, or even move the tailpiece back an inch or two, if the strings are too long.

As any 8 string guitarist will tell you, get an EQ pedal that can pull a lot of bass out of the signal, as notes that low will turn to mud otherwise.

 

[Yummy Notes]

I too dream of owning a baritone—tell no one, this is a bass forum.

Maybe this:
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]. This may exceed the budget by a bit.

But I think the heaviest gauge strings would be .072 for the “low” B, unless you are willing to modify (drill the bridge hole), but even then the tuner may not accommodate an actual bass string.

My thinking with the baritone allows for: 1 playing through bass rig maybe with octave pedal; 2 playing with guitar rig maybe with high pass pedal; and 3 playing a bi amp rig with aby switcher and combining scenarios 1 and 2.

 

[Yummy Notes]

I meant this one that is within your budget:

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

 

[HaphAsSard]

After four years of buying, trying, and selling, I finally have my “must-haves” when it comes to bass gear. It feels great to put that feeling of missing something behind me. Now, I can just dream of “nice-to-haves”

I keep coming back to the idea of something like a Bass VI tuned BEADF#B, B0–B2. This would have (nearly) the range of a typical 6-string bass, but be played more like a Bass VI (down a string) or baritone guitar (down an octave). I’d really like to try it.

I can think of three ways to do something like this:

•String a baritone guitar with heavy, short scale bass strings—if the bridge and tuning machines can accommodate them.

•String a bass vi with heavy, short scale bass strings—if the bridge can accommodate them.

•String a typical 6-string bass with light, long scale strings.

I prefer about 30–36# tension per string anyway, and might prefer even less tension with this instrument, but that still looks like a .120 for that B0, and even 32” ball end to taper might not work with scale lengths shorter than 30”.

While I’m accustomed to substantial 5-string necks and routinely play power chords even down near the nut, 6-string necks have still always seemed wide to me and their wide string spacing (relative to that of a baritone guitar or bass vi) might prove a bit much with chords as the norm; but I have plenty of options (including inexpensive ones) with 6-strings, and I know I can just tune the top two strings down a semitone each and go for it. Options among baritone guitars and bass vi instruments get even more limited if we consider my slight aesthetic distaste for Jazzmaster-style baritones and Fender/Squier basses vi (both Ibanez and Schecter have done bass vi instruments more to my taste, but they’re not readily available).

I’ll throw a budget of a 1,000 USD out there, though I suspect options for baritone guitars and basses vi are quite limited at any budget.

I imagine this as the featured instrument in a style of rock music in the realm of Joy Division and the Cure (when Robert Smith plays a bass vi), only heavier: baritone vocals; guitar primarily in a sparse, supportive, textural role; keys used similarly; possibly a second, more conventional bass tuned BEAD (I already own good candidates for the role if called for); huge drums. I’d like this instrument to get along well with effects. As I imagine keys and possibly a conventional bass in the picture, huge low end is not a necessity.

What would you suggest I try? Thanks in advance for your thoughtful input

Even the most chord-oriented 6-string bassists who tune to standard BEADGC will probably tell you there's not much chordal work to be done in the lowest frets. In your proposed tuning (with the top two being B and F#), if you fretted the cowboy guitar F-chord shape (which translates to a C major chord in your case) and proceeded to pluck every two adjacent strings, only the topmost pair (C/G) would not sound muddy. The reason for this has nothing to do with tone of a specific platform (it's the same with piano, or with synth) and everything with the inner workings of the (inner) ear (look up "critical bands"). Now, if you widen the vertical interval - in practice, if you pluck every other string - things change. And by the same token, going up the neck makes nominally consonant intervals (perfect fifths, perfect fourths, thirds)...consonant again. Which would call for some more room (lengthwise as well as string-to-string wise) starting from the 5th fret area, for better comfort in chord-shaping.

For the above reasons, what I'd do in your shoes is convert a conventional, long-scale five-string bass into a 6-stringer.
(Let't take a beat to let it sink in. )
- With an 8mm spacing, or a smidgen less at the nut (hybrid between guitar and bass)
- and 15.5mm at the bridge (the minimum with monorail bass bridge elements: also an acceptable compromise between 10.5mm of many guitars and 19mm of most 4-string basses, not too wide for pick use and still comfortable for fingerstyle plucking),
- the complete string fan should fit fine over the fretboard,
- not be uselessly wide in the first 5 frets (as outlined above), and
- be about perfect (in neck width and inter-fret width) for chords mid-neck.

Just get a fiver with in-line, bar pickups (or swap some into it later), replace nut and bridge, add a 6th tuning machine, and you're in business.

Oh: added benefit is you'd use long-scale strings, for maximum availability of whatever gauge you need.

 

[Snert]

There was a thread here I remember finding through a goggle search where the owner had modified an SRC6 to a B0 up SS6. My search-fu cannot find it at the moment though.

 

[HaphAsSard]

There was a thread here I remember finding through a goggle search where the owner had modified an SRC6 to a B0 up SS6. My search-fu cannot find it at the moment though.

Here it is:
Ibanez SRC6 Successful Conversion
by @AV8R.

 

[Snert]

Thank you Sir.

 

[Riff Ranger]

I would buy a Bass VI or clone:
GuitarBass VS - Harley Benton

Then buy a 7-string drop tune set from Kalium and chuck the top string, or an 8-string set and chuck the top two.
7 String | Kalium Music
8 String | Kalium Music

You might have to add spacers to the low strings, or even move the tailpiece back an inch or two, if the strings are too long.

As any 8 string guitarist will tell you, get an EQ pedal that can pull a lot of bass out of the signal, as notes that low will turn to mud otherwise.

I too dream of owning a baritone—tell no one, this is a bass forum.

Maybe this:
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]. This may exceed the budget by a bit.

But I think the heaviest gauge strings would be .072 for the “low” B, unless you are willing to modify (drill the bridge hole), but even then the tuner may not accommodate an actual bass string.

My thinking with the baritone allows for: 1 playing through bass rig maybe with octave pedal; 2 playing with guitar rig maybe with high pass pedal; and 3 playing a bi amp rig with aby switcher and combining scenarios 1 and 2.

I should have thought of an octave pedal I have a 25.5” scale guitar strung and tuned like a typical baritone, and should probably try that through an octave pedal and bass rig before acquiring and/or modifying an instrument. Thank you for mentioning it

Even the most chord-oriented 6-string bassists who tune to standard BEADGC will probably tell you there's not much chordal work to be done in the lowest frets. In your proposed tuning (with the top two being B and F#), if you fretted the cowboy guitar F-chord shape (which translates to a C major chord in your case) and proceeded to pluck every two adjacent strings, only the topmost pair (C/G) would not sound muddy. The reason for this has nothing to do with tone of a specific platform (it's the same with piano, or with synth) and everything with the inner workings of the (inner) ear (look up "critical bands"). Now, if you widen the vertical interval - in practice, if you pluck every other string - things change. And by the same token, going up the neck makes nominally consonant intervals (perfect fifths, perfect fourths, thirds)...consonant again. Which would call for some more room (lengthwise as well as string-to-string wise) starting from the 5th fret area, for better comfort in chord-shaping.

For the above reasons, what I'd do in your shoes is convert a conventional, long-scale five-string bass into a 6-stringer.
(Let't take a beat to let it sink in. )
- With an 8mm spacing, or a smidgen less at the nut (hybrid between guitar and bass)
- and 15.5mm at the bridge (the minimum with monorail bass bridge elements: also an acceptable compromise between 10.5mm of many guitars and 19mm of most 4-string basses, not too wide for pick use and still comfortable for fingerstyle plucking),
- the complete string fan should fit fine over the fretboard,
- not be uselessly wide in the first 5 frets (as outlined above), and
- be about perfect (in neck width and inter-fret width) for chords mid-neck.

Just get a fiver with in-line, bar pickups (or swap some into it later), replace nut and bridge, add a 6th tuning machine, and you're in business.

Oh: added benefit is you'd use long-scale strings, for maximum availability of whatever gauge you need.

Ah yes, learning how chords in this range really work might make sense Thank you for the tips. I do like the idea of easy stringing, though I’m not much of a luthier.

Here it is:
Ibanez SRC6 Successful Conversion
by @AV8R.

Very interesting. Those Ibanezeseseses (and Schecter’s offerings) seem to routinely sell as soon as they’re listed. It seems like, as I suspected, baritones and basses vi won’t do what I have in mind without some significant (for me) modifications, so I think it makes sense to try an octave pedal with my B1–B3 guitar first, and then maybe an inexpensive typical 6-string if it seems like a bass would fit the role better; significant mods or a custom would enter the picture if the idea really took hold.

Thanks, all of you, for taking an interest

 

[Riff Ranger]

I too dream of owning a baritone—tell no one, this is a bass forum.

Maybe this:
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]. This may exceed the budget by a bit.

But I think the heaviest gauge strings would be .072 for the “low” B, unless you are willing to modify (drill the bridge hole), but even then the tuner may not accommodate an actual bass string.

My thinking with the baritone allows for: 1 playing through bass rig maybe with octave pedal; 2 playing with guitar rig maybe with high pass pedal; and 3 playing a bi amp rig with aby switcher and combining scenarios 1 and 2.

I’m going to order an MXR Bass Octave Deluxe tomorrow, primarily for use with my B1–B3-tuned 25.5” guitar, to try this out

I suppose this means I can attempt to cover “Sledgehammer” now, too

 

[J Posega]

I’m going to order an MXR Bass Octave Deluxe tomorrow, primarily for use with my B1–B3-tuned 25.5” guitar, to try this out

I suppose this means I can attempt to cover “Sledgehammer” now, too

An analog octave pedal like that won't sound great when playing polyphonically. You'd need something like a Digitech Whammy or Drop (digital pitch shifter) to sound good when playing chords.

 

[spatters]

An analog octave pedal like that won't sound great when playing polyphonically. You'd need something like a Digitech Whammy or Drop (digital pitch shifter) to sound good when playing chords.

Very much this. Octavers are finicky, and don't work well unless you're giving them single notes without a lot of harmonics over the fundamental.

Even a whammy pedal will sound somewhat odd. If OP really wants to play a low-tuned guitarbass, he's going to have to make a low-tuned guitarbass.

 

[Riff Ranger]

An analog octave pedal like that won't sound great when playing polyphonically. You'd need something like a Digitech Whammy or Drop (digital pitch shifter) to sound good when playing chords.

I’ve got a deal lined up on this pedal but will adjust my expectations accordingly (ac-CHORD-ingly—OPE ). Based in part on contributions to this thread, I’m rethinking my approach toward the featured instrument here, anyway; single notes might make more sense. I suppose this will give me a sense of whether this idea has legs. If it does, I might go on a pedal binge including some digital pitch shifters thank you for the heads up.

 

[Riff Ranger]

Very much this. Octavers are finicky, and don't work well unless you're giving them single notes without a lot of harmonics over the fundamental.

Even a whammy pedal will sound somewhat odd. If OP really wants to play a low-tuned guitarbass, he's going to have to make a low-tuned guitarbass.

Or that

If I feel like this idea is going somewhere for more than a song or two, I still like the idea of an instrument that can play in that range without assistance. I suspect the octave pedal will give me some idea whether this will even get anywhere, at least.

 

[Riff Ranger]

Thank you for helping me set appropriate expectations for the octave pedal; while it does give me some idea of how a B0–B2 … sub-baritone? might work, it clearly can’t do everything I have in mind for such an instrument. I find myself leaning toward a $200 six-string bass for this, with light strings and the top two each dropped a semitone, purely for savings’ and simplicity’s sakes; something closer to a custom bass vi would probably work better, but that’s beyond my current means as well as my skills in lutherie. I think I can handle the stretches

In related news, I do like this pedal in its intended role, especially with a fretless bass

 

[Deleted member 365158]

A buddy of mine put together a baritone flying V and gave it to me. Im no guitarist but that thing is pretty fun. A project Ive had on my bench for a bit is building a bass vi out of an old cheap Pbass body and 30” scale baritone neck and trying to use a bigsby style tremolo… it doesn’t look like the string spacing is going to work without fabbing a custom bridge and thats a bit out of my skills, tooling so i just ordered a used bass vi. My want is for noodling over a basic bass line using my looper.

as far as an octave pedal, listen to some Red Fang, they use them a lot and they have a pretty killer sound, at least on their first couple albums.

 

[Riff Ranger]

Red Fang

Oregon’s own!

 

[Riff Ranger]

Well … away we go. This should arrive Wednesday

 

[Deleted member 365158]

A buddy of mine put together a baritone flying V and gave it to me. Im no guitarist but that thing is pretty fun. A project Ive had on my bench for a bit is building a bass vi out of an old cheap Pbass body and 30” scale baritone neck and trying to use a bigsby style tremolo… it doesn’t look like the string spacing is going to work without fabbing a custom bridge and thats a bit out of my skills, tooling so i just ordered a used bass vi. My want is for noodling over a basic bass line using my looper.

as far as an octave pedal, listen to some Red Fang, they use them a lot and they have a pretty killer sound, at least on their first couple albums.

Wow, how time flies!!
This one is in the process now of finally being a thing
https://www.talkbass.com/threads/winter-build-off-2024-best-bass-vi-for-my-budget.1633711/

 

[Riff Ranger]

It’s here! I’ll continue the discussion on its own thread.

Well … away we go. This should arrive Wednesday

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