Bass weight wimpiness?

[Mr_O'B]

All I am saying is that the issue of light weight basses has become a lot more important recently from what I hear. We all know that 70s ash Fenders tended to be very heavy, as northern ash was often used rather than swamp ash (as is my 70s bass). I never heard it being such an issue at the time. IMO there is a LOT more talk about it now. Not trying to say anything is wrong with that - just observing. Same way with amps - until very recently, there was little talk of it. Now for many, it is one of the first things they look at when they look at new amps.

Back in the 70s not wearing a seatbelt was acceptable, but we know better in 2015.

I believe it's more cost effective for bass manufacturers to build basses with zero concern towards weight (basses weighing 9.6 lbs and over). I believe manufacturer's warehouses would be full of unsold basses if they posted weights ranging from 9.6 lbs and over. Health issues or not, I would never purchase a bass in that weight range.

Months ago, I responded to an ad about a mint condition bass. I asked the guy why he was selling it, and he said he was losing interest in playing the bass. However, he told me that he was keeping his cheap Squire bass.
He paid over $1000 for the bass he was selling and it was in mint condition. After playing it in a seated position for a few minutes, I started to feel a strain on my neck. I asked how much the bass weighed and he replied 9.89 lbs. I was tempted to buy it because it had all the features I was looking for. I soon came to my senses and walked away!

I'm no genius, but common sense tells me that he was selling the bass because it was TOO HEAVY. Had I bought the bass, I am pretty sure he would have used the funds towards a much lighter bass.

 

[mojomike001]

After playing it in a seated position for a few minutes, I started to feel a strain on my neck. I asked how much the bass weighed and he replied 9.89 lbs.

If you were playing it seated, wouldn't the weight be supported by your leg? I typically have no weight on my shoulder or neck when I play seated. For me, that's about the only time when neither weight nor neck dive matters much.

 

[buldog5151bass]

Back in the 70s not wearing a seatbelt was acceptable, but we know better in 2015.

I believe it's more cost effective for bass manufacturers to build basses with zero concern towards weight (basses weighing 9.6 lbs and over). I believe manufacturer's warehouses would be full of unsold basses if they posted weights ranging from 9.6 lbs and over. Health issues or not, I would never purchase a bass in that weight range.

Months ago, I responded to an ad about a mint condition bass. I asked the guy why he was selling it, and he said he was losing interest in playing the bass. However, he told me that he was keeping his cheap Squire bass.
He paid over $1000 for the bass he was selling and it was in mint condition. After playing it in a seated position for a few minutes, I started to feel a strain on my neck. I asked how much the bass weighed and he replied 9.89 lbs.

I'm no genius, but common sense tells me that he was selling the bass because it was TOO HEAVY. Had I bought the bass, I am pretty sure he would have used the funds towards a much lighter bass.

You miss my point - today that is a huge issue. I've been playing for over 30 years, and until recently this was not much of an issue. Twelve years ago, I bought my Lull - one major reason was the weight - about 9.5 pounds. Today, even that is considered heavy.

 

[Mr_O'B]

If you were playing it seated, wouldn't the weight be supported by your leg? I typically have no weight on my shoulder or neck when I play seated. For me, that's about the only time when neither weight nor neck dive matters much.

I never wear my strap loose whether sitting or standing. I felt the same strain I was experiencing when I owned a MIM Fender FSR jazz bass that weighed approx. 10 + lbs.
My 10 lb. + bass had ridiculous neck dive.

I wear my strap the same way sitting and standing with my current basses that weigh: one less than 8 lbs and the other ranging from 9.2 - 9.3 lbs. No issues!

 

[Mr_O'B]

You miss my point - today that is a huge issue. I've been playing for over 30 years, and until recently this was not much of an issue. Twelve years ago, I bought my Lull - one major reason was the weight - about 9.5 pounds. Today, even that is considered heavy.

Sorry, I did miss your point!

 

[buldog5151bass]

 

[JimmyM]

+1

I know some people are adamant that being stronger is irrelevant but I dont see how having stronger muscles can have NO impact on shoulder pain. I'm not saying it is a total cure and I understand that some people have physical issues that no amount of excercise will help, but I don't believe that being in good physical shape doesn't help ease your shoulder pain.

Yes, wouldn't it be just lovely if we all were in perfect health and we all looked like supermodels and bodybuilders? But we don't.

But play what you want. I Don't think anyone needs to justify wanting to play a light or heavy bass.

Or their workout routine or lack of it

 

[JimmyM]

You miss my point - today that is a huge issue. I've been playing for over 30 years, and until recently this was not much of an issue. Twelve years ago, I bought my Lull - one major reason was the weight - about 9.5 pounds. Today, even that is considered heavy.

You're old now. That's why you think it's more of an issue now.

 

[mojomike001]

I never wear my strap loose whether sitting or standing. I felt the same strain I was experiencing when I owned a MIM Fender FSR jazz bass that weighed approx. 10 + lbs.
My 10 lb. + bass had ridiculous neck dive.

I wear my strap the same way sitting and standing with my current basses that weigh: one less than 8 lbs and the other ranging from 9.2 - 9.3 lbs. No issues!

I see. I guess our sitting down playing styles are different. When I'm sitting, I basically don't need a strap.

 

[buldog5151bass]

You're old now. That's why you think it's more of an issue now.

Maybe. But it certainly seems to be more of an issue now. Sweetwater now lists the weight of their instruments. I never saw any retailer do that before. I never saw interest in lightweight cabs, and now it is a major marketing point.

 

[Muddslide]

Yes, wouldn't it be just lovely if we all were in perfect health and we all looked like supermodels and bodybuilders? But we don't.

I've never been close to perfect health, but I may be closer to it now than ever before, simply because now that I'm nearing 50 I want to make old bones.

I admit I was an idiot when I was younger. I felt invincible but more--I look back and realize I didn't really care about mortality. I had an "If I die, I die..." outlook. Not suicidal; I had a blast! But I sort of lived this way until my late 20s when I became a family man.

I drank, drugged, and ate like a pig. (A pig likely has a lot more sense than I did.)

I also fought, f***ed and everything else in as extreme a way as possible.

My parents have said "We never thought you'd make it to 18." Other people who knew me then have said "It's a miracle you can still tie your own shoes."

I honestly don't know what compelled me. I wasn't a "bad" person--I didn't rip people off or screw people over--I just gave into any and every impulse with no thought of the ramifications.

I did also manage to read a lot, play a lot of music, get through college, etc. so I wasn't 100% maniac.

I've shattered all the ribs on the right side of my body. I've dislocated both shoulders, my right hip and my right knee. I've broken both ankles and one wrist. I've had teeth knocked out. I've had my orbital bone caved in. I've had three toes amputated (due to injuries compounded by diabetes which was brought on largely from drinking.)

I say all this just to be an old coot to younger people here. I want them to hear and believe what I say--life ISN'T really that short. Sure, it is in the cosmic sense, but while you are here you will go through many changes..."live many lifetimes" in a way.

Things you do and decisions you make in your teens and twenties WILL impact your life later on.

All that abuse I put myself through...all the stupid decisions...all the injuries...

I feel ALL of them now in some way every day.

Take care of yourselves.

 

[Moving Pictures]

Great post Muddslide. We all pay for the sins of our bodies later in life and it needs to be dealt with to each's best abilities.

I did a lot of full contact sports in my late teens and into my twenties. That left me with some serious bone injuries, some similar to yours. I have a partial disc in my back that makes the weight of a bass an issue. That and a car accident that caused a serious shoulder issue which fortunately is going to be undergoing more treatment this year. Hopefully for a final time. That accident is why I hate people who text and drive, but that is another story.

So for me, I play lighter basses so I can keep playing. If I have a very bad pain day I sit and play. I work out, I stretch, walk a lot and get regular physiotherapy and massage but that will never be enough to play a heavy bass. If that makes me a bass weight-weenie so be it.

 

[Moving Pictures]

Another point to add, I do remember people complaining about weight of basses and guitars 30 years ago. However one other difference between now and then are the number of people who spend many hours working or playing on computers. That is a good way to tighten up neck, shoulders and back especially if you don't stretch or exercise. I think this contributes to why this issue is more visible now.

 

[JimmyM]

Well I'm not in the best of shape, but I have no other injuries that are chronic except the shoulder, and I've had very few injuries otherwise. Led a fairly clean life, too. Well, sort of. Had my moments

 

[Watchootognbout]

I've been playing Lull basses for a while, most recently a couple of M4Vs that weigh 8.00 and 7.95 lbs.

I recently purchased a Fender CS Classic from a TB'er, and I really like it. The only thing that I'm not crazy about is the weight. But here is the kicker: it's only 8.75 lbs.

My shoulder experienced a small bit of discomfort after an hour of rehearsal, and I'm wondering if a 3 hour gig would send me running back to uber-light. Of course, I was hyper-aware of the Fender CS weight, as I was "testing it" to see if it would bother me during the rehearsal.

Anyone have any similar dispositions and/or experiences to share? All thoughts are welcome.

Yes, I know that many of you happily shoulder 10 lb. basses all night long without batting an eye. Let's put your picture on a Brawny Paper Towel package.

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

You don't know weight until you have a 13 lb bass like this!

 

[Mr_O'B]

I've never been close to perfect health, but I may be closer to it now than ever before, simply because now that I'm nearing 50 I want to make old bones.

I admit I was an idiot when I was younger. I felt invincible but more--I look back and realize I didn't really care about mortality. I had an "If I die, I die..." outlook. Not suicidal; I had a blast! But I sort of lived this way until my late 20s when I became a family man.

I drank, drugged, and ate like a pig. (A pig likely has a lot more sense than I did.)

I also fought, f***ed and everything else in as extreme a way as possible.

My parents have said "We never thought you'd make it to 18." Other people who knew me then have said "It's a miracle you can still tie your own shoes."

I honestly don't know what compelled me. I wasn't a "bad" person--I didn't rip people off or screw people over--I just gave into any and every impulse with no thought of the ramifications.

I did also manage to read a lot, play a lot of music, get through college, etc. so I wasn't 100% maniac.

I've shattered all the ribs on the right side of my body. I've dislocated both shoulders, my right hip and my right knee. I've broken both ankles and one wrist. I've had teeth knocked out. I've had my orbital bone caved in. I've had three toes amputated (due to injuries compounded by diabetes which was brought on largely from drinking.)

I say all this just to be an old coot to younger people here. I want them to hear and believe what I say--life ISN'T really that short. Sure, it is in the cosmic sense, but while you are here you will go through many changes..."live many lifetimes" in a way.

Things you do and decisions you make in your teens and twenties WILL impact your life later on.

All that abuse I put myself through...all the stupid decisions...all the injuries...

I feel ALL of them now in some way every day.

Take care of yourselves.

You hit the nail on the head! Past physical injuries, health related issues, age, etc........ Those things will definitely make you more conscience of how much a bass weighs.
I think heavier basses should be special orders with basses weighing less than 9.6 lbs. being the norm.

 

[Buzz E]

great spirit jimmym! it's not a personal attack, i think you know that. i just now weighed a sunglasses case that came in at a whopping 5.0 oz. then i put it on my shoulder and it felt less than a feather (to me), so i should just tape a ribbon-bow on my shoulder and wear it for a couple hours to get some perspective lol

the difference between light and heavy bass, to me, is measured in the ~4lb increment (ie light starts at 7-8, med 9-12, heavy at 12+). so personally, i have a hard time understanding 3 oz making a dif. i dont believe

Hey! Weren't you previously banned?!? How did you bust out? Lol...!

 

[lfmn16]

Yes, wouldn't it be just lovely if we all were in perfect health and we all looked like supermodels and bodybuilders? But we don't.


Or their workout routine or lack of it

I think you may have misunderstood the point of my post. My only point is that if you can exercise, it would have some benefit in managing shoulder pain. Some people don't get the fact that not everyone can exercise. I'm not implying that anyone should exercise if they don't want to. We have enough people on TB telling people what they should do.

 

[lomo]

Exercise can help, especially if your problem is related to weakness. In most cases, however, it is not. For example, you can help manage a torn rotator cuff tendon by strengthening the other muscles that make up the cuff. However, that will not fix the tear and no matter how much supportive training you do, a lighter bass will STILL feel waaaaaaay better and be less likely to make the primary issue worse than a heavier one. If you have a herniated disc, strengthening your core abdominals will help take some strain off your back, but, again, a lighter bass will STILL benefit you in the long run and be less painful in the immediate sense. In sum, it's simplistic to believe that shoulder pain from wearing a bass on a strap can be "solved" with improved fitness.

As far as light weight being a more sought after and consequently marketed feature today, well, all consumer items evolve, don't they? Did people look for clothes that wick moisture, weigh next to nothing and insulate whether wet or dry 50 years ago. No, because they didn't exist. There were clothes, and they "worked" fine, but.......now, high tech fabrics rule for those applications. No one who runs 10 miles in cold weather would ever prefer doing so in cotton sweats over one of the more modern, efficient and comfortable garments. Interior house paint is no longer toxic and the brushes can be washed with water, even though no one used to care (or be aware) of their advantages. Even running shoes have gotten MUCH lighter.....because carrying weight around with no advantage is essentially working for nothing. I work out a lot, but if I am going for a walk, or playing music, the less encumbered I am, the happier I am and the more I can enjoy what I'm doing.

And finally, in response to the "how can a few ounces matter.....I put a few ounces on my shoulder and can't even feel it":
That argument is so flawed it's laughable. Do a thought experiment: eat one oyster....enjoy it; I bet you want another. I guess one oyster is insignificant. Now eat 80 oysters and tell me if the next one "matters". Obviously, how much a given increment in weight matters is a function of how close to your INDIVIDUAL comfort level you are before that weight is added. One doesn't have to be a particle physicist to figure that out.

 

[CaptainWally]

I guess was revived! We had a lot more to say on the topic

Well, update on the OP - I play two Lull M4Vs these days - 8.0 lbs and 7 lbs 10z. I'm happy as a clam and I don't get shoulder issues even for long sets!