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basses for newbies (SX batch build thread)

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Can you describe the tone out of the EMG's? Can one expect a grindy, vintage 70's jazz bass tone out of them? (given the bass has 70's spacing of course) I like the price as compared too Fender pups like in the Geddy etc...and really don't dislike EMG aside from many of them have the hotter, more modern 80's/90's tone.
The Selects do not suffer from what some perceive as a certain "sterility" in the active, more expensive EMGs. They have warmth and punch, but it is perhaps not quite as organic a sound as you would get out of a true 70s Jazz. Still, for the price the risk you take is fairly small. I think they're a good choice for a quality low-end bass like the Rondo.
 
As for pups, I've been looking into vintage-ish single coil pickups because in testing, these basses were plenty quiet after the copper shielding and star grounding even with a pickup singled. Might as well stick with a standard tone.

GFS is definitely on the table to check out. Other options I had thought about were tonerider, Seymour Duncan SJB-1, and of course Fender Original. I had not considered the EMG or the Dragonfire pups. . . EMG because I didn't think the tone would be appropriate from my previous experience with EMG. Dragonfire because I don't think the magnets are the Alnico ones due to the resistance and output. But, they're cheap enough to just give a twirl. I bought the Nordstrands so I can have a known benchmark to compare others to. Otherwise, the testing all becomes a subjective mush.

While those are coming in, back to the scheduled programming:

A neck arrived in the mail the other day from a P/J SX, and after inspection, I thought it would be good to pair it with #4. 3 of the 4 screw holes did not line up, so I started plugging the holes with some 1/4" maple plugs I cut on a borrowed drill press. First, I had to drill out the existing holes.

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Then, I sanded the plugs since they were a bit larger in diameter than the holes. I also cut a few channels on the edges of the plugs to let glue pass by as I drive it in.

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After the plugs were glued in with some Titebond, I dremeled them level.

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Neck is prepped and ready for fitting

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I used some shim material to rig something to clamp to without damaging the frets and still allow 2 strings to be installed for neck alignment.

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I then marked my drill bit to the length of my machine screws

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With the neck aligned and clamped in place, I drilled the new neck holes.

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And then, enlarged those and installed threaded inserts

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#4 with it's new blonde, fretted neck installed. . . next stop fret leveling and dressing.

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I'm really excited about #4. It only weighed 8.19 lbs. (when it still had its original rosewood fretless neck). . .the neck pocket is one of the best I've seen on an SX. The fit is snug, and it did not need to be shimmed which I find is very rare on these. This is the neck that blowabs was kind enough to sell to me after reading my thread. Thanks! It's a beautiful, straight neck and it's now been paired with one of the best SX bodies I've seen.

Won 1 rosewood SX P-bass neck on Ebay yesterday and lost 1 jazz neck and 1 p-neck. These seem to to be fetching quite the premium right now.
 
Amazing thread. Really liked the parts on the fret work. Layers of tape on the 11th fret to adjust the fret falloff addresses a problem that has plagued my fretwork in the past. Next string change, it's time to fix the problem!
 
yeah its pretty much the entire bass, not as bad as pictured but you can feel it on your hand when playing. I just havent gotten to filing them down yet, or shielding for that matter, but I got a nice one sounds real nice, havent messed with it much yet.

I will get shot at for this, but I just played another MIA Jazz bass with the same exact issue. that amkes, lemmie see, almost every single one in that line that I have played!

Not a tough thing to fix, but not something I'd want to get on a +1000 dollar bass. Yet folks snipe at Sx for having the issue on some of their basses.
 
it's now been paired with one of the best SX bodies I've seen.
In your opinion, what observable characteristics makes that particular body so good relative to others?
GFS is definitely on the table to check out. Other options I had thought about were tonerider, Seymour Duncan SJB-1, and of course Fender Original. I had not considered the EMG or the Dragonfire pups. . . EMG because I didn't think the tone would be appropriate from my previous experience with EMG. Dragonfire because I don't think the magnets are the Alnico ones due to the resistance and output. But, they're cheap enough to just give a twirl. I bought the Nordstrands so I can have a known benchmark to compare others to. Otherwise, the testing all becomes a subjective mush.
Right on! Most folks would hesitate in this situation to invest in a pup that costs almost as much as the bass itself; however, I can see that this is a somewhat special case in that the SXes in this thread are receiving an extraordinary amount of tender lovin' care, dedication, and skill in modding them and setting them up. Would it be fair to accuse you of being a perfectionist? ;)
 
In your opinion, what observable characteristics makes that particular body so good relative to others?
Right on! Most folks would hesitate in this situation to invest in a pup that costs almost as much as the bass itself; however, I can see that this is a somewhat special case in that the SXes in this thread are receiving an extraordinary amount of tender lovin' care, dedication, and skill in modding them and setting them up. Would it be fair to accuse you of being a perfectionist? ;)

This one sounded special to me when I played it out of the box. Highly subjective, but sometimes an instrument just speaks to you. This one had richness, resonance, and complexity in the acoustic sound that I liked. The SX's that I've handled range from just above 8 lbs. to just over 10 lbs. which is quite the range with most falling between 9 and 10 lbs. This one measures on the extreme low end and the body is really a featherweight for alder.

The neck pocket is the most often screwed up areas in an SX. There is no reason with CNC machining that they can't make the neck pockets consistent and the screw holes precisely align so that necks are truly interchangeable. Also, I'd estimate that only 1 out of every 5 SX's don't need to be shimmed because the neck pocket is un-molested. This is only critical if you're trying to get nice, low action. Otherwise, you'd never know or care. It's just a roll of the dice as far as neck pockets. Threaded inserts mitigate the effects of the problem to a large extent I think, but still, mechanically, it's best to not have a shim.

I've tried to keep things economical on these builds and refrain from replacing anything on these basses without reason. The tuners, bridges, and nuts have remained even though there are better options out there because they do the job (as well as any vintage bridge). The pups are falling short and holding the instrument back. I'd like for these instruments to be capable of serious work, and I think they can stand up to that kind of scrutiny. If replacement is necessary. .. might as well do it right.

At the end of the day, these are still cheap SX's and will never be able to measure up to a premium bass in terms of fit and finish, but they CAN be made to handle and sound phenomenal. The tape doesn't lie and I think there is still unexploited potential in these basses. I'd like to hear what an SX sounds like with good mics onboard. Right now, the dynamic range of the instrument is getting cut off by the "SX effect".
 
I picked up some copper shielding foil on Ebay direct from Hong Kong. The thing about is, while I paid about double what I would have paid to buy it at Stewmac, I got 30 meters of the 18mm and 50mm width tape while stewmac would have only given me 6 meters of 55mm and 19mm width. That's 2x the price for 5x more material. Since the last batch from Stewmac lasted me about 5 basses, this one should last me darn near forever if I finish it at all.

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Leveling and crowning on #4 went smoothly. . . nothing new, so I figured it'd be a waste of bandwidth to post pics. . . except I got a new fret file from Ebay. This one is a diamond file with 150 grit on one side and 300 grit on the other. The quality of this particular tool is a bit meh, but it does chatter less than the standard Stewmac fret file. If I had to do it again, I'd probably just get the Stewmac diamond file from the get-go. The machining quality and dispersion of the diamond particles is not exactly top notch on this tool, but it works and it's cheap to buy (same cost as the standard fret file at Stewmac).

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The new copper shielding foil went in without issue. . . some observations. The foil is noticeably thinner than the stewmac stuff which makes it easier to install in certain ways and harder in other ways. It's a bit more prone to tearing especially when you want to make a clean crease into a corner, but it's easier to position and make turns with. I think installation in general went a bit faster than with the Stewmac stuff. The adhesive is non-conductive, but since I found the Stewmac conductive adhesive does not work as well as soldering, I soldered all of it anyways. On that level, this Chinese stuff actually solders better than the Stewmac stuff. I don't know why. It could be the thinner material heats up faster, or when the conductive adhesive on the Stewmac tape melts, it creates nasty gunk that clutters up the solder joint. This stuff solders great at the seams and the solder seems to just flow on nice and smooth. Copper is copper though, right? It still gets the job done the same even if it's slightly thinner.

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I then wired up the bass as much as practical without new pickups (waiting on Nordstrand order to come in). P-bass. . . so much easier than the series/parallel jazz bass setup.

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And just like that, #4 is pretty much done except for Nordstrands and strings. I made an order for 6 more sets of the medium gauge Stainless Steel Dunlops as I think they work great and the price is phenomenal.

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The one next it is possibly #5 which I picked up on Ebay last month. This one is going to be another stunner I think in terms of tone because it's also a super lightweight hovering just a hair over 8 lbs. It does have cosmetic issues though with a few good dings. Hey, it's "road worn".

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I've gotta take a moment to thank my friend Marc Games from Marcelo Guitars: Link Removed He makes high end custom guitars and was the guy who suggested I try a Rondo bass when I first went about looking for something cheap to record with. . . which in turn put me down this deadly path of SX bass impulse purchases in quantity. I found out the "good ones" were being discontinued, and also found out there were no p-basses in stock (the one I wanted all along), and went crazy buying up a stash of Jazz basses (seen on this thread) which turned out amazing. I don't think Jasaman would have been as impressed personally. . . for his playing style with a p-bass. So the universe conspires to let me dive back into messin' with basses which I would not have done had there been a nice Rondo p-bass available for me to buy at the beginning. Going back on topic, Marc from Marcelo guitars recommended and is helping me get Nordstrand pickups for the continuing builds here. We worked together for years in the recording studio and I trust his ears and instincts. The fact that a maker of high-end custom guitars would recommend a sub $100 bass to me says a lot for both these low-end instruments and his guitars which do play and sound fantastic at a premium price point. That is, coming from someone (me) who can't play squat on a guitar. The demos on his website were tracked with one of my SX basses. . . that one, a blonde swamp-ash P/J just kindof just sits around in the studio making its way onto every recording.

It comes full circle then with my Rondo adventure. I will keep #4 and use it as my main bass (along with my crazy 6 I made in college) that is unless someone gives me enough money to pry it out my hands :P. But, I have 3 more fretless p-basses 2 of which I still need to find fretted necks for and 3 more complete jazz basses to build. . .so this thread still has some life left. Every person who has had a chance to play Jasaman's #3 has wanted one of these for themselves, so I'm confident I will be able to move all of these basses and that some of them may actually find their way past the professionals who are hovering like vultures and make their way to "the children" who I originally targeted these builds for.

Stay tuned. . . I am super excited about the incoming Nordstrands and will most likely be posting up some more sound clips for reference and comment.
 
You. . . . :mad::mad:. my snipe was actually higher than your final bid by $0.85, but since I had to be $1.00 higher, you won.

PM me if you have parts. I need a bridge and a set of tuners, but what I really need is necks. If i had necks, I could keep building.

The nice people at Musikraft have agreed to give me volume pricing and they have said it would be no problem making the heel width 2.53" to fit the SX bodies instead of the normal 2.5" so I'm contemplating that option for future builds. I could also try to sell some of the initial order of necks with a "trade-in" option for folks with SX's who want to upgrade.

If there's interest, please PM me. Anyways, i'll have to wait until the dust settles from killer California property taxes before I have the guts to throw down for a batch of premium necks.
 
Chunger, your wiring jobs are really the cleanest I've seen! Could you toss us a couple more angles on that p job you just did before you reassemble it? It's the simplest and cleanest star grounding job I've seen, and I think a lot of folks could benefit from seeing it in a little more detail. I know I would!

Thanks for the continued contribution.
 
One question here, Chunger! Have you tried to add a nicer bridge? let's say umm.. Babicz Full Contact Hardware? i haven't tried it.. but based on the reviews from GC and MF, damn, it seems like a sadistic bridge..

Another question.. i have a bass with 2 pups, split and jazz, it has one volume and one tone for each pup.. all passive btw.. i want to do the extremely kick ass shielding job, but i have no idea where to begin.. i don't have a diagram for the wiring, and also i want to try the star grounding thing.. can u help me?

Thanks!

Subscribed a couple of days btw..
 
Second that. Chunger is a madman -- beautiful, beautiful work. One of the top bass manufacturers should hire that dude.

Naw, I'm just a guy with a folding table, and a hand drill learning to do stuff on the internet and having a good time of it :eek:

Those top manufacturers and folks over in the luthier section of this forum put out some crazy good stuff every day with an exponentially finer degree of precision and finish than what I'm doing here.

But, I can say I'm learning a lot and getting better with each bass --> fewer screw-ups.
 
One question here, Chunger! Have you tried to add a nicer bridge? let's say umm.. Babicz Full Contact Hardware? i haven't tried it.. but based on the reviews from GC and MF, damn, it seems like a sadistic bridge..

Another question.. i have a bass with 2 pups, split and jazz, it has one volume and one tone for each pup.. all passive btw.. i want to do the extremely kick ass shielding job, but i have no idea where to begin.. i don't have a diagram for the wiring, and also i want to try the star grounding thing.. can u help me?

The babicz looks interesting. I'd never seen those before. I've been pretty happy with the schaller roller bridges in the past, but for these builds if I were to upgrade, I'm thinking the Gotoh 201 for $32 from Warmoth would be the way to go because I wouldn't have to re-drill and those little Japanese people really know how to make nice hardware.

Jasaman and I talked about bridge replacement, but the stockers do the job just as well as any other vintage bridge. I'm not sitting here thinking about how much more awesome my tone would be with a new bridge, so I'm just cheaping out and leaving it alone. Pickups and then nut would probably get sorted out prior to bridge in my personal opinion.

I'm not a wiring guru, so if you scroll back a few pages on this thread I posted a link to the wiring diagram I used to do the jazz basses. I think you can do that on the P/J, but there may not be any need or advantage on the P/J for the series/parallel setup and you can just go with a standard jazz bass wiring diagram for vol, vol, tone. The only deviation is every time something connects to ground, instead of soldering to the pot or wherever else it tells you to, I run a separate wire directly to the negative lug of the output jack. That's what star grounding is. . . I think. Everything grounds to a single point so you don't get ground loops. I choose the negative lug of the output jack. You can choose whatever you want. Here's an early messier iteration where I made a separate lug.

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I think the way I'm doing it now star grounding to the output jack is much cleaner. . .even though stuffing 6 wires into that little soldering lug hole on the output jack is a pain on the jazz basses. It requires you to focus your chi.

Again, I'm a non-literate in electrical circuits so I learned everything from the sticky threads in the "pickups and electronics" section on shielding and star grounding. I also found the info about series/parallel in that section of the forum. Those guys can better answer your questions about how to properly shield a bass. If you're good at wrapping oddly shaped Christmas presents, you'll do a fine job shielding a control cavity, and it really doesn't matter if it's a bit messy. . . as long as you get good coverage and solder all of the foil bits together, you're good to go. Make sure the pickup cavities and control cavity shields are connected though.
 
Could you toss us a couple more angles on that p job you just did before you reassemble it?

Here you go:
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I noticed when I put the pickguard back on that most of the screws were a bit stripped so I went back in tonight and stuffed hour devour forks into the holes along with titebond. While I was at it, I snapped a few photos of the p-bass guts without pickups. The loose wire is ground for the pickup.
 
Thanks much! Great, great work. I agree, star-grounding to the ouput jack gives much cleaner results, and for me as a novice electrical tinkerer, the visual reference makes it easier for me to see the "signal flow" when the wiring job is straightforward. I will be implementing this directly in my next shielding job. You tha man!
 
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