That seems to be the general consensus from people who have tried them (myself included)... it's just a hard sell when there is easier tech that does close enough to the same thing.
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Basses with dummy coils …
- Thread starter Green Knight
- Start date
That seems to be the general consensus from people who have tried them (myself included)... it's just a hard sell when there is easier tech that does close enough to the same thing.
JB pickups *are* humbucking when both PUs are at same level. Many players use JB PUs all the time full on (=humbucking). Dummy coil on passive bass, which is like normal PU without the magnets, changes the sound. Makes it too neat or tidy.
There is the Ilitch system which uses a big humbucking coil and wont change sound. I works wery well but needs some mods like carving to the JB.
https://www.ilitchelectronics.com/
It is a common misconception that single coil hum is always too annoying. Mostly it isn't. I have no shielding or like on my passive 7enders. No problems even in studio. Of course there are situations when single coils noise is too much. Then you can use EMGs or like. Or PB.
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The effect of a dummy coil on tone
This is true, but with any spaced sensing apertures, eg 2 JB SCs, you will have comb filtering and whilst we're used to it, it doesn't mean it's wanted.
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They looked like a Strat pickup embedded into the body under the Jazz rout. Weird.
I didn't read it like that. I would take it to mean that the Alembic circuit is sufficiently quiet that an additional 3dB can still be below the threshold of audibility.
Being able to take one half of the stack out doesn't change the fact that it's a stack topology. Making the stack in two parts means the pickup assembly is a bit simpler, but the bass assembly is a bit harder.
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I was fairly surprised to find it lurking under the main pickup. I was in my late teens but somehow figured it must have been a hum-cancelling device. That bass should have been incredible but really wasn't unfortunately.
I am definitely curious about things I don't understand. Things I have understood for decades are different - no matter what circuit is used, combining two paths has the effects I've explained to you several times now.
If you add 2 plus 2 enough times, the fact that you're adding two new kinds of things doesn't change the fact that 2 plus 2 of anything will result in 4. In Kindergarten, you may have used cookies or apples as the example. Then they change it to oranges. Still 4. No matter what they used, you eventually get the fact that 2 plus 2 of anything is 4. Then you move on to the next topic.
To someone who has done enough circuit design, this situation really is that simple. You can use tubes, you can use FETs, you can use BJT's - no matter what circuit you're talking about, combining two signal paths has the effect I'm describing. You can even do the combining inside a dsp - each signal has noise, and the two noises will add up the same way in that situation.
It's not a lack of curiosity - it's aiming that curiosity at places you don't yet understand, not putting a bunch of effort into making sure that adding 2 pints of Ben and Jerry's Ice cream to the 2 you already have gets you 4.
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Stacks often end up with enough resistance that the upper mid peak is heavily damped, which can make them sound lifeless. Wiring them in parallel can help that, but there are other details you need to accommodate - the lower output of that configuration is a hurdle that most folks won't get past, and loading them to get the sonics right is something most folks don't know about. For the few of us that can get past all that, stacks can be a great topology, but we are few and far between.
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JeezyMcNuggles
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- Feb 23, 2018
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I have a bass with a dummy player. It's useless.
JeezyMcNuggles
Inactive
- Feb 23, 2018
- 14,723
- 20,970
- Disclosures
- I suck, but nobody really notices
They aren't really "in disguise," they're just another pickup made in a jazz shape. There's only two that I've ever tried that sound and react almost exactly like thier single coil counterparts. All the others I've tried, fall very short. All in different ways. They're really just "completely different" pickups, not "noiseless singles"
Where you and I are mis-communicating is the simple fact that the Alembic circuit is likely the most quiet bass guitar circuit available. As I stated, I understand your point about summing signals. Not disputing that. But, it seems you have not had hands on experience with the subject circuit, but are making pronouncements about it based on your theoretical understanding; which, as I stated, I don't dispute.
Our impasse is strictly related to a disconnect between your theoretical basis and your lack of hands on data with the subject circuit; which would seem to disprove your hypothesis regarding practical applicability.
Again, I am NOT impeaching your theoretical understanding. Disproving hypotheses is a healthy scientific exercise; indeed the heart of the practice. We should not get cross-wise, in that respect.
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well, dummy coils to work end up having to be parallel in the circuit which means the impedance of the circuit (read the pickup) is cut in half, so you end up with a different tone than the pickup without the extra coil - just as you do if it's built into the pickup either series or parallel.
You can adjust the design of your pickup to accomodate for that - but noiseless designs are simpler because (I'm oversimplifying here)_ you take half the coile and turn it into the second half of a humbucker.
By doing it that way you end up with a pickup with the same amount of windings and physical size/shape as the original pickup which means you end up with something inherently more like the original sound of the single coil.Even with the inherent similarities of a noiseless design, there are still people who swear they haven't been able to get the "magic" of a pure single coil - though for most of us it's certainly close enough on stage.
This is simpler (less stuff) and easier to install (just one hole for the pickup) and more controllable (add a second pickup and things get really interesting impedance-wise three coils pickups in parallel is a whole NEW impedance/volume situation.
On Jazz basses specifically - this would counter-act the RW/RP of the pickups (two of the coils would be the same polarity/wind) and you would LOSE the magic of the pickups interacting (for many of us, the "MAGIC" sound is one pickup just BARELY rolled off so that you get a bit more zing by reducing the cancellation (which tends to be most noticable in the high-end )
I explained it in the last post, but because you obviously didn't understand, it gets you an audible and unavoidable audible effect because of the spacing of the coils that may not be wanted. It's a compromise that one must live with to get the HC. Other pickup configs such as stacked HBs, sidewinders etc do not have this issue and only sense the string in a fairly narrow aperture.
