Basses with vintage style / small frets

[lowphatbass]

I know for a fact fret size has an effect on tone. If the fret was just a termination point for the string and the finger/fretboard didn't come into play why does a maple board sound so much different than a rosewood. The smaller fret brings the fingerboard up a bit more in the tonal equation, IMO. There is a cat around these parts named M. Dove that has been running mandolin frets on everything for quite some years. It has an effect on tone for sure!!

 

[Juneau]

So Lowphat, youd describe them as imparting more of the fingerboards natural tone into the final tone of the bass? That sounds "woodier" to me, so you are likely correct in your estimation of what it does to tone overall.

 

[lowphatbass]

So Lowphat, youd describe them as imparting more of the fingerboards natural tone into the final tone of the bass? That sounds "woodier" to me, so you are likely correct in your estimation of what it does to tone overall.

More or less Juneau. THIS IS JUST A GUESS!!! I would say it concentrates the fingerboard's character into play more quickly, it seems to spike right at the attack. I have nothing to back this up except my gut and my ears, so please, anyone who thinks or knows otherwise don't hesitate to correct me, I don't want to be spewing incorrect dribble.

 

[jive1]

It's a possibility that a lower fret could impart more of the strings vibration to the wood. But who knows

I love the feel of the smaller frets, and I don't miss the meaty jumbos at all. As far as tone, woodier would be a good description. That's what I've noticed as well.

 

[Sheldon D.]

I know for a fact fret size has an effect on tone. If the fret was just a termination point for the string and the finger/fretboard didn't come into play why does a maple board sound so much different than a rosewood. The smaller fret brings the fingerboard up a bit more in the tonal equation, IMO. There is a cat around these parts named M. Dove that has been running mandolin frets on everything for quite some years. It has an effect on tone for sure!!

This had been my experience. We were using really large jumbo frets prior to building basses for Lee Sklar. At his request we installed mando frets. The difference in tone was night and day - of course the difference in fret size was also night and day so YMMV. Larger frets add more "metal" to the tone - brighter and more clicky. Smaller frets affect the tone less, to the point where a mando fret sounds almost "fretless".

Of course action is only a measure of distance between the fret tops and the strings, so technically speaking, fret size does not affect action. However smaller frets make the neck seem thinner which tends to make the neck feel faster and easier to play - which is the whole point of having a lower action.

 

[Razman]

This had been my experience. We were using really large jumbo frets prior to building basses for Lee Sklar. At his request we installed mando frets. The difference in tone was night and day - of course the difference in fret size was also night and day so YMMV. Larger frets add more "metal" to the tone - brighter and more clicky. Smaller frets affect the tone less, to the point where a mando fret sounds almost "fretless".

Of course action is only a measure of distance between the fret tops and the strings, so technically speaking, fret size does not affect action. However smaller frets make the neck seem thinner which tends to make the neck feel faster and easier to play - which is the whole point of having a lower action.

Finally, "tha Man" speaks. Sheldon, what year was this? My '99 Z1 has smaller frets, but they don't seem reeeealy small. It is fast though, maybe it has banjo's?

Lowphat,

+1 on the relief/buzzing relationship; if the string hits a fret, it buzzes for me.

As for feel, the main difference for me hasn't been the smaller frets, nor even the fanning: it's the tension of the strings. I'm still "feeling out" my bass so to speak. The Peavey Cirrus I'm coming off of still feels more familiar to me, as I don't have to look down as much on it as I do my Dingwall. On it, I can feel the gaps between the frets more because the strings have less tension--not because the frets are larger. I sometimes feel like I'm walking through a dark room on the Dingwall as I'm not always sure of where I place my fingers, but I felt the same way on the Cirrus when I first started playing it, so I'm not worried about it. With some more time I should get that well-worn pair of shoes feeling again, where your feet just slip into them without any effort at all. I'm just not there yet on this bass.

BTW, has this thread been hijacked into a Dingwall/bass feel thread???

Peace...

 

[Sheldon D.]

Finally, "tha Man" speaks. Sheldon, what year was this? My '99 Z1 has smaller frets, but they don't seem reeeealy small. It is fast though, maybe it has banjo's?
Peace...

1995 was when we made the switch. From that time until the fire we were using NOS 1960's wire. Post fire we experimented with a low wide fret which maybe what you have. Current dimensions are .080" high x .040" wide.

 

[zombywoof5050]

I too like the vintage size frets, but I prefer Fender's 7.25" fingerboard radius over Lakland's 10" radius.

 

[SuperDuck]

The Marcus Miller signature has very small-sized fretwire.

 

[lowphatbass]

1995 was when we made the switch. From that time until the fire we were using NOS 1960's wire. Post fire we experimented with a low wide fret which maybe what you have. Current dimensions are .080" high x .040" wide.

Hmmm, I'm thinking this info can help me 'date' my bass. My bass has big frets, I suppose it may have been made before the switch in 1995, I didn't realize she was quite that old....almost "vintage"

 

[lilvampboyx]

Here a good question.....and I need to Know which is better for slapping and tapping Jumbo or Vintage(small) frets?

 

[Bryan R. Tyler]

My Elrick six-string has mandolin fretwire...it's noticably different than my Elrick five-string with medium-jumbo fretwire. As forwarned to me by gruuv, one of its previous owners, if you take your eyes off of the board, it's easy to loose your place, because the frets take so little of your notice that it's almost like playing a fretless, while you really notice your hand move along jumbo frets. That said, the mandolin frets are VERY comfy, and make playing pretty effortless.

 

[BartmanPDX]

I too like the vintage size frets, but I prefer Fender's 7.25" fingerboard radius over Lakland's 10" radius.

The Lakland DJ4 has a 7.25" radius. Other models have a larger radius.

Personally, I love the vintage frets. Took only a short time to get used to them. I haven't the foggiest idea how they affect tone, but I LOVE the feel, thats for sure.

 

[Christian Houmann]

My Fodera Emperor has small frets and I love them.
So easy to play!

-Christian

 

[bassmanwho]

What about durability? A local guitar repairman told me that vintage frets last less time, compared with jumbo and medium. A pro bassist has same idea. The thing is, refretting costs a lot here, and not many people can do it perfectly; so, my idea is, jumbo frets would last long since its size in nature and thus would save some money.

 

[dougjwray]

I know for a fact that fret size affects tone.
I have a 1981 G&L L-2000E that needed new frets when I bought it. The luthier (the great Jim Mouradian in Cambridge, Massachusetts) recommended vintage ones, to warm up the tone. I went for it, and he was right. The bass was a bit too strident for me before the job, and afterward it was beautiful: warm, woody and natural. Just what I wanted, to balance the modern-sounding pickups. (Well, if you want to call 1981 "modern"... man, I AM old...)
I always assumed that the reason for the difference was an obvious & simple one: more metal = brighter sound.
By the way, the fingerboard is rosewood.

 

[Ostinato]

Here a good question.....and I need to Know which is better for slapping and tapping Jumbo or Vintage(small) frets?

Jumbo frets or frets with a higher crown would do you better for slap and tap. I'm not much into tapping, but I've tried it on both vintage and jumbo wire and the larger wire is more better for percussive style playing.

 

[Juneau]

Id agree that larger frets will produce a more metallic clank sort of slap tone that most people are after. As for wearing issues, from my limited experience, and the experience of other Dingwall owners, the smaller frets dont wear any faster than larger ones. Maybe if your a punk player who tears the crap out of their bass while playing they might, but for most players, I wouldnt think it would need to be a concern.