• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join freeLog in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

BBE Bmax and BBE Bmax-T: Has Anyone A/Bed Them?

has anyone compared the bmax with the old bbe bass preamp they made back in the early 90's? (i think that's when they made it) back when i was more into guitar i played with a bass player that had one in his rack. he got a great sound out of it. of course that was a long time ago and i may remember it sounding better than it actually did.
 
Hey Hawkeye!

Yes I compared the BBE BMAX-T with the Fender TBP-1. I found them very similar in terms of great sound and construction quality. I did find the BMAX-T to be cleaner, faster and has a very "hot" input signal. The Fender is a little bit more warm and "slow" in it's tubeyness, also has a less "hot" input. I finnally kept the Fender just because I wanted to have the ability of Bi-amping my rig (Aguilar GS410 + 2 GS112). Aside from that, the BBE to me really sounded just a little bit better. And it includes a compressor and the Sonic Mazximizar circuitry. But I really love the Fender's sound and the little extra features in the back panel (input,outputs, FX loop).

I still have it on auction of Ebay, so give it a look if anyone is interested. The BBE is in excellent condition. I just used it in my room for like 3 days while I decided which preamp to keep.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=7303064537&ssPageName=STRK:MESE:IT

Peace...
 
As an eBay Associate, TalkBass may earn a commission from qualifying purchases.
SMASH said:
Clips recorded through a Bmax-t, if anyone's interested. Both myself and a seasoned engineer preferred it to the famed Avalon studio preamp for most tracks.

http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=167894
Interesting.
Based on basstasters, I originally liked the speed and lowend impact of the SS BMax, but the more I compared it to the BMax-T, the more Three Dimensional the BMax-T sounded (more harmonics throughout its range).
More like the Aguilar DB359 (which is still my favorite as far as sound from its DI out).

How would you compare the low end of the U5 to the BMax-T?
The U5 sounds very warm to me in the bass for a SS device.
Maybe too warm for me (at least with certain cabs).

I think the theoretical ideal would be to have a high quality electronic x-over between the bass and a BMax for the < 100Hz range and a BMax-T for the > 100Hz range, but in real life the only place it might make a significant difference would be in the studio. Be interesting to try though.
 
SMASH said:
The Avalon in the studio is this one :
vt737sp-01.jpg


It can be heard on some tracks in that thread I added earlier today (at bottom of links in the initial post).

"The Avalon VT-737SP features a combination of TUBE preamplifiers, opto-compressor, sweep equalizer, output level and VU metering in a 2U space."

Without getting into much tweaking on either unit, I thought the lows on the BBE were both richer and tighter. I liked both though. The real preference we had for the BBE was in the mids and highs. Also we found that for a consumer grade tube preamp it was very quiet (specs say 1% THD with a 12ax7, but I put a 5751 in mine).
Oh, yeah; that one!
I haven't had the opportunity to use one of those yet.
I would like to; the Millennia preamps too...Yummy! :hyper: :bassist: :hyper:
 
I found a local shop with both these units in last month and A/B'd them using one of my own instruments (warwick streamer LX-6) through a power amp (crappy Behringer, forget what model) into a 810 (ampeg).

I definitely prefered the Bmax-T. It just sounded less artificial to me. Both sounded reasonably tight. Then again I might have had differing opinions had I been using my own cabs and perhaps with a power amp I was more familiar with. I've also come to grips with the fact that my inital impressions usually amount to squat. Untill I've had a piece of equipment for a few weeks and gigged it at least a couple of times, I don't really know how well I like it.
 
OBBM said:
Has anyone compared an BMAX-T with an Alembic F-1X? They appear to have almost identical input circuitry.
The BMax-T has a semi-parametric midrange control to help make up for the lack of flexibility of the traditional fender tone stack (cut only).

I haven't heard the BMax-T in a live-use situation (just audio clips -- very limited worth compared to hands-on tweaking one with my equipment).
The Alembic has GREAT tone, but can be a bit mid-shy, esp. w/certain cabs.
 
Ok, here's the Bass Player review-I can also copy the small TechSpecs section if anyone really wants me to. Forgive the typos.

Review by Bill Leigh
BBE BMAX-T
Pros: Incredibly sweet warmth; excellent tone shaping; a classic design upgraded with thoughtful features
Cons: Power cord attached rather than removable
BBE BMAX
Pros: Warm sound combined with quick resoponse; excellent tone-shaping controls and other features; low price
Cons: Power cord attached rather than removable

Connoisseiurs of stand-alone bass preamps consider the Fender Dual Showman guitar amp the great-granddaddy of them all. In the Grateful Dead's quest to constantly improve their sound, design engineer Ron Wickersham began experimenting with Showman amps in the late '60s, adding a preamp outand using a separate power amp. Wickersham later improved and codified the design in the Alembic F-2B, a single rackmount preamp version that has since become the granddaddy of them all. In the years since, the F-2B's design-from its direct-to-tube input to its interactive EQ-has become the basis for highly regarded bass preamp designs from many manufacturers.

When the folks at BBE Sound started thinking of designing their own version of the single-rackspace tube preamp, they didn't have to look far for inspiration. BBE VP of engineeringPaul Gagon, who worked at Fender until '84, was one of the last engineers to work alongside Fender's noted tube design guru Ed Jahns. With Gagon's expertise, the company came up with the BMAX-T, a bass preamp aimed at combining the warmth that the Fender and Alembic preamps are known for, but with the fast, clean accuracy of modern hi-fi preamps. Once the company felt they had perfected the BMAX-T, they created the BMAX, a lower-priced solid state version with an op-amp driven active DI. In addition to their vintage-inspired front ends, both preamps contain a semi parametric EQ, optical compressor, and BBE's patented Sonic Maximizer circuit.

Kissing Cousins
From the solid chassis and rear-panel jacks to the rugged, abalone-topped knobs, the two preamps look nearly identical, and indeed they share many of the same features. Both are built with sonsiderable attention to quality components and careful details. Like the amps that inspired them, the 3-band EQ on both feature boost-only highs and lows and cut-only mids, and flat EQ dialed in at roughly 2, 10, and 2. The solid-state circuitry, from the semi-parametric through the BBE Sonic Maximizer is identical on both models. Though the semi-parametric mid EQ gain is labeled 0 to 10 like its boost-only, it's actually a +/-12dB boost and cut-a nice tone-tweaking addition to an enduring preamp design. The one-knob compressor, another thoughtful add-on, is an optical design with an internal LED that glows brighter as input level increases. In a small black module the LED is optically coupled to a light-dependent resistor, which controls compression. Turning the knob clockwise both increases compression ratio and lowers the threshold for more compression.
The BMAX Sonic Maximizers aren't some simplified version of the circuit; they're the same as those that appear in the company's stand-alone Sonic Maximizer rack uits, like the BBE 482i. With the circuit engaged, rurning up the PROCESS knob applies more of a phase rotation algorithm that compensates for impeded high frequencies, while the LO CONTOUR offers up a 12dB boost at 50Hz to balance out the process. Confused? Just think of the Sonic Maximizer controls as an extension of your tone-shaping palette, where PROCESS adds a crisp, high-end sheen and LO CONTOUR adds broad, fundamental lows.

Where the two preamps diverge is in their front-end cicuitry, and that makes all the conic difference. While the BMAX-T follows the Fender Showman/Alembic F2B tube based gain staging, the BMAX accomplishes that function with solid-state circuitry. While BBE designed the BMAX input with a relatively high impedance to simulate the warmth that comes from the way tubes load pickups, the BMAX is clearly a different animal, with a brighter, drier sound and faster transients than the warmer BMAX-T. The BMAX and BMAX-T also have differnt DIs, the former incorporating the circuitry and components of BBE's DI-100X transformerless direct box, and the latter incorporatinog a DI 1000 direct box with a Jensen JT DBE transformer. (See August '03 for a review of both DIs and a discussion of the transformers).
 
To the Max
I took both units for a spin in our Soundroom, playing a Tobias Standard 5, Borjes 4-string, Lakland Skyline Series Darryl Jones Signature, Tribute by G&L L-2500, fretless Zon Sonus 3-string, and a piezo-equipped Ernie Ball/Music Man Bongo 5-string through a Crest CA-9 power amp and several cabinets, including and Eden D410XLT, Aguilar GS 112 1x12 and GS 412 4x12, and Bergantine HT-322 2x10 +1x12. The BmA-T had an incredibly rich, endeniably warm and luscious sound even through the crispest sounding cabinets, while the solid-state BMAX had a reasonably warm sound with a much fater response that's better suited for the quick transients of slapping and fast pickstyle playing. After playing busy slap lines through the quick feeling BMAX, the tube-based BMAX-T felt a bit sluggish in comparison, but the T is still rather respectably responsive, even while dripping with buttery warmth. Both units offer loads of tone-sculpting flexibility through the EQ, semi-parmetric MID, and smooth compression, but the BRIGHT switch, which added sweet zing on the BMAX was very subtle on our BMAX-T's tester; I could only percieve a small amount of high-end boost and at avery low gain levels and with certain instruments. The Sonic Maximizer's PROCESS knob added plenty of sheen, though, and the LO CONTOUR control adds sweet-sounding bottomy bigness.

In spite of the BMAX-T's tremendous tube warmth and separate GAIN and MASTER volume controls, don't expect to be able to dial up tube overdrive. With the GAIN dimed and hot Zon and Ernie Ball basses plugged into the passive input, I was only able to produce a tiny amount of edgy grit. Tube-wise, the BMAX-T is all about roundness.

Armed with a flatwound-strung '71 Fender Precision and a Music Man StingRay, I recorded both units using a MOTU 828MKII audio interface into a Power Mac G4 running MOTU Digital Performer. Both units fit wonderfully into the project studio environment, and I used them both for recording and re-amping. While the BMAX-T offered up rich, complex tones, the BMAX offered a more controlled-sounding response that helped a bouncy fingerstyle part fit better into a mix among drums, two guitars, and organ. I was also pleasanttly surprised by how easy it was to make the solid-state BMAX sound big and meaty.

For convenience on the gig, I wished both units had mute switches, signal indication lights, and detachable power cords. On the plus side, having the ability to bring in the compressor and Sonic Maximizer by footswitch is a superb idea. And for the price, it's hard to beat the BMAX's blend of tone and features.

With the BMAX nd BMAX-T, BBE has created a pair of terrific bass preamps with classic roots and some great add-ons. If you're thinking of checking them out, don't let price alone dictate which one you co. The BMAX-T offers impressive, pillowy tone, while the BMAX offers a drier sound, but a quicker response that might better fit your style.
 
The one thing hardly talked about. The compressor.

Is it even worth a damn? And I just noticed, they don't have a tuner out. That really sucks for those of us with rack tuners. But I guess we could just pass through them. Still seems they leave out a rather widely used option such as that.

Anyways, the reason I ask about the compressor, is I've considered ditching my current 2 space config for this. That being a bbe maxcom, and an svp-bsp. I want to use a stomp box for distortion instead of the dirty channel on the svp anyways, so it's not all that useful. And in the process downsize my rack a bit. But I wonder if it would be worth it. Or just leave my current compressor, and get a different pre that just gives me a tube and better eq section (which is mostly why I want to switch anyways).

Thoughts?

Troll
 
troll said:
And I just noticed, they don't have a tuner out. That really sucks for those of us with rack tuners. But I guess we could just pass through them. Still seems they leave out a rather widely used option such as that.
Thoughts?Troll

I have the SS BMax, and I just run my wireless straight to my
rack tuner, then to the input of my BMax. My tuner has a mute
switch, and I don't notice any loss of signal, or coloration by
doing it this way.
 
Hello,

Just reading the posts about the BMax review. I have the tube version and it's great.

I remember seeing another review by a different magazine, other than Bass Player. They A/B'd the Tube and Regular Bmax. I don't remember what magazine it was, but maybe somebody here remembers? It's actually driving me nuts now.

At the end of the article, it stated something like "both are great units, in a perfect world, a bass player would have both units in their rig." or something to that effect?

Does anybody know where this review came from? I thought it was from the UK Bass magazine, but I went through their website, and couldn't find it. Maybe it was from the other Bass GUITAR magazine? Which issue? (pulling hair out, pacing the floor).

Gear addict looking for fix......