Behringer Power Amps, are they any good?

[FighttheSilence]

For experience I know Behringers Bass and Guitar amps are...less than great. I never had problems with reliability, but tonally it frankly sucked. But somewhere I heard they make reliable power amps. Im look for a power amp that puts out 1000-1200watts per side @ 4 ohms. So far I know of the Carvin DCM3800L, which is $750. If theres any other power amps out there which meet these specs and are priced lower, let me know. Im not opposed to used, but Ive checked the used market for DCM3800L with no luck. I see that the Behringer EUROPOWER EPX3000 is close to my needs, and much cheaper but is it any good?

 

[Flatty Banks]

I'd get (anything) Carvin. Behringer carries on the same horrible quality throughout all products.

 

[rpsands]

I'd get (anything) Carvin. Behringer carries on the same horrible quality throughout all products.

This is a load of crap.

The Behringer power amps are very high quality; they should be, they're basically direct copies of various QSC power amps with slightly cheaper components and less quality control.

Which is why I bought Carvin - the business practice is pretty abominable in my opinion.

Behringer's rackmount units other than the QSC clones, I would definitely consider buying, if only BBE wasn't doing them better and cheaper with better support.

 

[Flatty Banks]

This is a load of crap.

The Behringer power amps are very high quality; they should be, they're basically direct copies of various QSC power amps with slightly cheaper components and less quality control.

Which is why I bought Carvin - the business practice is pretty abominable in my opinion.

Behringer's rackmount units other than the QSC clones, I would definitely consider buying, if only BBE wasn't doing them better and cheaper with better support.

Behringer is cheap Chinese crap. Carvin is USA-made, sturdy equipment, which is why I almost use all Carvin.

 

[rpsands]

You're really over-generalizing. Behringer puts out a number of very good quality products and stands behind them with an adequate warranty. You can do a lot worse. They certainly have a superior set of misc rack effects to Carvin.

Also, you might want to rethink the "Carvin is USA-Made, sturdy equipment" -- Carvin has a lot of items that are rebadged Asian manufacture (particularly their Wireless IEMs are built by I think Nady).

 

[seamonkey]

For experience I know Behringers Bass and Guitar amps are...less than great. I never had problems with reliability, but tonally it frankly sucked. But somewhere I heard they make reliable power amps. Im look for a power amp that puts out 1000-1200watts per side @ 4 ohms. So far I know of the Carvin DCM3800L, which is $750. If theres any other power amps out there which meet these specs and are priced lower, let me know. Im not opposed to used, but Ive checked the used market for DCM3800L with no luck. I see that the Behringer EUROPOWER EPX3000 is close to my needs, and much cheaper but is it any good?

IF you're going just by watts - not all apples are apples

Behringer does not use any rating standard in their ratings.
Neither does Carvin.
The ratings can't be compared.

When you start getting into pro installation and touring quality amplifiers QSC, Crown, Crest, Lab Gruppen - you'll see they measure against standards.
Looks for standards like
EIA
FTC
EIAJ

You only can compare
EIA to EIA watts
EIAJ to EIAJ watts
FTC to FTC watts

Interestingly, FTC watches amplifier ratings in the consumer markets. Home theater amplifiers need to adhere to FTC rating standards. Musical instrument amplifiers do not fall under this umbrella.

 

[fdeck]

Interestingly, FTC watches amplifier ratings in the consumer markets. Home theater amplifiers need to adhere to FTC rating standards. Musical instrument amplifiers do not fall under this umbrella.

This is true. However, I suspect that reputable makers will follow the FTC standards anyway, to avoid legal hassles and / or a scandal.

 

[John Bigboote]

Behringer is cheap Chinese crap. Carvin is USA-made, sturdy equipment, which is why I almost use all Carvin.

Behringer is relatively inexpensive. And it's made in China. That doesn't make it "cheap Chinese crap." It's all engineered in Germany, and manufactured in Behringer's own factories, which conform to ISO 9001 quality management standards.

It only takes two or three people saying stuff in a forum before it becomes "conventional wisdom." Go to other forums (agb, for example) and people swear by Behringer stuff.

Personally, I've *never* heard of a Behringer power amp failing or otherwise underperforming. They're great bang for the buck. Also on a personal note, my daughter was once given a discontinued, bottom-of-the-line Behringer guitar amp when she was learning guitar. It developed a hum that I couldn't fix or otherwise figure out (but worked well otherwise). Behringer customer support stepped up, sent me a prepaid shipping label so I could send it in for servicing, and replaced it with a brand-new, current model that's worked flawlessly ever since.

If you don't want to buy Chinese goods, I understand completely. But don't go disparaging an entire brand just because they do their manufacturing over there.

-jb

 

[BassmanPaul]

As in all things, you get what you pay for. I've yet to hear of a Europower amp failing but on the other hand I have only had contact with one.

I own several of Carvin's DCM series of power amps and have never had an issue with any of them. How their "Light" amps operate I have yet to experience. My gut feeling about them is that they would be as reliable as the older DCMs. I am thinking about picking one up but they all offer more power than I am comfortable with.

Paul

 

[Jim C]

It's all engineered in Germany

Not completely true
Much of the early days of Behringer were direct copies of patented circuit designs by Mackie, dbx, Brooks Siren, drawmer, Alesis and others. At the time (and possibly still now) the Germans did not recognize US FTC or patent laws so the class action lawsuit went nowhere.

This is just one of many items regarding this lawsuit from wikipedia:

Trademark claims
In June 1997, Mackie accused Behringer of trademark and trade dress infringement, and brought suit seeking $327M in damages.[32][33] In their suit, Mackie said that Behringer had a history of copying products by other manufacturers and selling them as their own.[34] The Mackie suit detailed an instance in which Behringer was sued by Aphex Systems for copying the Aural Exciter Type F—in that case Aphex Systems won 690,000 Deutsche Marks.[34] The Mackie suit also mentioned similar cases filed by BBE, dbx and Drawmer.[34] Behringer has won at least one court case against Mackie for infringement—on November 30, 1999, the U.S. District Court in Seattle, Washington, dismissed Mackie claims that Behringer had infringed on Mackie copyrights with its MX 8000 mixer, noting that circuit board layout was not covered by U.S. copyright laws.[35][36]


In other words, Behringer copied US and British designs, had zero R&D costs, and built the equipment in China.
Also, the ISO 9001 rating may be just on assembly and not the quality of the copied compenents. I realize they are paying the workers nothing, but believe they cut corners with parts as well.

Search Behringer lawsuit and decide if you want to support this company.

 

[MikeGee]

Before I comment, I want to say hi and my name is mike. I play bass not real good but I can hold down the root.

Behringer is bottom of the line and sometimes Beginner. But some of their mixers are nice. I have their 450watt bass head. Blow a fuse, I replaced it. It works. It sound like a beginners amp but it works. My GK head failed twice.

I mean is a beginner gonna buy a Lab Gruppen no they will get a behringer or an american audio or a qsc gx3.

 

[username1]

Before you buy into the opinions of people who havent really tried the behringer power amps and just like to give their opinions I will give you the truth about their performance because i own and have used an EP1200 for the past few years. Yes they are a copy of the QSC but they perform flawlessly. I have one in a rack with a peavey cs800 and it works and sounds as good as the peavey and has been completely trouble free. They are probably one of the best products that behringer makes. As far as internal compnents they use toshiba power transistors and decent components in them. How ever you think about the ethics and such of the company is your opinion but the power amps are real work horses with decent sound and reliability.

 

[Flatty Banks]

Not completely true
Much of the early days of Behringer were direct copies of patented circuit designs by Mackie, dbx, Brooks Siren, drawmer, Alesis and others. At the time (and possibly still now) the Germans did not recognize US FTC or patent laws so the class action lawsuit went nowhere.

This is just one of many items regarding this lawsuit from wikipedia:

Trademark claims
In June 1997, Mackie accused Behringer of trademark and trade dress infringement, and brought suit seeking $327M in damages.[32][33] In their suit, Mackie said that Behringer had a history of copying products by other manufacturers and selling them as their own.[34] The Mackie suit detailed an instance in which Behringer was sued by Aphex Systems for copying the Aural Exciter Type F—in that case Aphex Systems won 690,000 Deutsche Marks.[34] The Mackie suit also mentioned similar cases filed by BBE, dbx and Drawmer.[34] Behringer has won at least one court case against Mackie for infringement—on November 30, 1999, the U.S. District Court in Seattle, Washington, dismissed Mackie claims that Behringer had infringed on Mackie copyrights with its MX 8000 mixer, noting that circuit board layout was not covered by U.S. copyright laws.[35][36]


In other words, Behringer copied US and British designs, had zero R&D costs, and built the equipment in China.
Also, the ISO 9001 rating may be just on assembly and not the quality of the copied compenents. I realize they are paying the workers nothing, but believe they cut corners with parts as well.

Search Behringer lawsuit and decide if you want to support this company.

I'm pretty sure Apple opened a suit against them too for stealing a boatload of graphics off their own website. Would you also want to support a company that saved Apple's website and changed the text?

I wouldn't. The quality's beginner, and it's just all sketchy. I'm not by all means saying it doesn't work, but I'm saying you're paying for what you're getting. Cheap $ = cheap Q in most areas (waiting for SX reference), but you get my point.

 

[rpsands]

I'm pretty sure Apple opened a suit against them too for stealing a boatload of graphics off their own website. Would you also want to support a company that saved Apple's website and changed the text?

I wouldn't. The quality's beginner, and it's just all sketchy. I'm not by all means saying it doesn't work, but I'm saying you're paying for what you're getting. Cheap $ = cheap Q in most areas (waiting for SX reference), but you get my point.

You are flatly talking through the top of your hat on the quality issue.

 

[Marko 1]

I’ve powered my PA with a Behringer EP2500 for years, and no problems at all.

QSC recently put out their “GX” series amps at a price to compete with Behringers.

For my bass rig, I got a QSC GX5, which has the same power rating, but isn’t recommended for 2-ohm usage.

If you’ve got a personal problem Behringer and don’t need to go 2ohms, the QSC GX series amps are a great value.

 

[Jim C]

I believe that Behrninger makes decent (not great) power amps for the money

I know of a large certified repair shop (Pro Tec) in Maryland that says the ratio of rack units sold vs units coming in for repair is very high; also am told that some of their equipment is unreasonably hard to service

We use a Behringer mixer at our rehearsal studio that sounds OK, although the hi mid EQ claims to go to 20kHz

Many on this board have had issues with Behringer gear

If you are going to make claims about the quality in engineering or manufacturing back them up with facts

 

[Christian Waiau]

I know the guy in SWWAATS tours with a behringer power amp in his bass rig and AFAIK it hasnt let him down.

My friend mike also did 3 tours let alone tons of local shows with a behringer bass head...

its hit and miss but you definitely hit at times.

 

[throbgod13]

my band had a powered mixer, and 2 of the channels just stopped working.. it was under warranty, but they did not do the warranty work.. they just refused.. my g****ist bought *another* Behringer powered mixer, and it's worked fine for the last 4 years..

i think it's just hit an miss on the QC..

honestly, i'd look for a used brand name amp, rather than a new Behringer.. but, that's not to say that they are "crap".. although, that is the "conventional wisdom"..

 

[georgestrings]

Although I abhor their business practices, I believe in calling a spade a spade - IME, Behringer's bass and guitar amps and cabs are pretty craptacular, as are their powered mixers - their regular mixers run from being OK to crappy...

IME, Behringer's best products are their power amps and DIs - they're actually not bad, especially for their asking price... I'm no fan, but calling their power amps junk is not correct, IMO - I've never owned any, but have seen atleast half a dozen in service, and don't know of any failures in any of them...



- georgestrings

 

[John Bigboote]

You are flatly talking through the top of your hat on the quality issue.

Um, who is?

-jb