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Bergantino vs Schroeder Cabs

#21
Originally Posted by Washishimi > The new Schroeder 101215BMF absolutely kills. More details to come.......
Click to expand...

I don't see the 101215BMF on Jorg's site yet. When he combines different driver sizes like in the 1215BMF do you know if they have separate tuned sub enclosures or share a single enclosure? I don't see how three drivers, all run full range and sharing a common enclosure could work well together but Jorg has some innovative ways of configuring drivers and the proof is in the hearing. Subscribed to the coming details and review on this...
 
#22
This combo is magic so far

mbberg.jpg
 
#24
IMO, the Bergantinos would edge them out by a mile (though to be fair, I've never heard Schoeders live, just in various video clips). The Schroeders always seemed to be thin and nasally sounding, regardless of the setting. I can imagine how they would be freaking loud and cut through a busy mix with the mid hump tuned to where it is, though. They also seemed to be more coloured than the Bergs, adding their own tone to the mix, which is good\bad I guess depending on whether you like that colour or not.

Bergs to me are sweet, balanced, smooth, musical and have a good balance between sounding full and being clear - perhaps the best at this of any cabs I've ever heard. The tweeters (if that's your thing) are totally awesome. Everything about them oozes high quality and their service is top notch...
 
#25
5StringPocket said:
I don't see the 101215BMF on Jorg's site yet. When he combines different driver sizes like in the 1215BMF do you know if they have separate tuned sub enclosures or share a single enclosure? I don't see how three drivers, all run full range and sharing a common enclosure could work well together but Jorg has some innovative ways of configuring drivers and the proof is in the hearing. Subscribed to the coming details and review on this...
Click to expand...

I haven't opened her up, so I don't know about the configuration inside. I know a lot of people around here have issue with "random drivers in a box", and I get that. Science is hard to argue with. But, in this case, it sounds/performs wonderfully. And to me, that is all that matters. I tell Jorg the sound I am looking for, and he makes his suggestions. He hasn't steered me wrong yet. So how/why it works are questions that would be better directed at him directly.
He said he is also coming out with a new 1012BMF box that is designed to fit onto his existing 15+L box to give you a modular 101215BMF. I attached a pic below. He said the site should be updated soon.
I'll get some better quality/detailed pics up soon

66818a92.gif


2c850c89.gif
 
#26
Are the BMF cabs as loud as the regular versions.. I played a 1210 and holy cow that thing is loud... I layed it flat on stage and teh coupling to the stage and a slight bass boost made that cabinet perhaps as punchy and loud as many 410s,,
I really dig the mid punch.. if it only had a little deeper low extension and slightly more open top it would gig it all the time..
 
#27
svtb15 said:
Are the BMF cabs as loud as the regular versions.. I played a 1210 and holy cow that thing is loud... I layed it flat on stage and teh coupling to the stage and a slight bass boost made that cabinet perhaps as punchy and loud as many 410s,,
I really dig the mid punch.. if it only had a little deeper low extension and slightly more open top it would gig it all the time..
Click to expand...

IMO and IME, yes. Still tight and a bit restricted down low, buy MUCH more even than the baffle models. Wonderful cabs if you like it tight, bright, and punchy.
 
#28
svtb15 said:
Are the BMF cabs as loud as the regular versions.. I played a 1210 and holy cow that thing is loud... I layed it flat on stage and teh coupling to the stage and a slight bass boost made that cabinet perhaps as punchy and loud as many 410s,,
I really dig the mid punch.. if it only had a little deeper low extension and slightly more open top it would gig it all the time..
Click to expand...

FYI... here is a pretty representative video clip of the sound of the 115L+ (it is not listed in the BMF section, but it basically is a BMF... no baffle, etc.). It takes a bit of EQ to widen out the low end and soften the low mids a bit, but it is just a killer cab if small and lightweight are key.... 4ohms and just loud as the beejeebers. I like the tone also, again, as long as you have a bit of power and EQ control of the low end to fatten it a bit. The top end is very good to my ear.

I find I can get this cab to sound quite a bit like my Bergantino AE410 by applying a bit of EQ.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDnlGSqQu5w
 
#29
Thank you Ken,, That is pretty good actually.. Sounds nice and articulate... And not too dark or honky at all..mmmmm So many choices these days.. Im just not having a good day with my aggt db112s on local gigs.. Been that way for a while.. so im expanding my horizons to some types that i never considered before and the Schroeder came up...


KJung said:
FYI... here is a pretty representative video clip of the sound of the 115L+ (it is not listed in the BMF section, but it basically is a BMF... no baffle, etc.). It takes a bit of EQ to widen out the low end and soften the low mids a bit, but it is just a killer cab if small and lightweight are key.... 4ohms and just loud as the beejeebers. I like the tone also, again, as long as you have a bit of power and EQ control of the low end to fatten it a bit. The top end is very good to my ear.

I find I can get this cab to sound quite a bit like my Bergantino AE410 by applying a bit of EQ.

Click to expand...
 
#30
Originally Posted by sratas

Scroeder 1212L: very aggressive, the sound is raw, in your face, with a detectable bump in the frequency response ranging from 220 to 500 Hz (I mean, 10-12 dB of bump over the flat response!). This response is achieved mainly by a proprietary construction, resembling a smaller cab. the human ear is very sensitive to midrange frequencies, and so you can hear a very loud sound (efficiency), with great capability to cut trough any mix and hear the pitch of the notes you play. The counterside is that the Scroeder is a one trick pony, you have this particular sound, and only this. If you are not an audiophile guy and prefer to play with the two PUs perfectly blended with a standard powerful rock sound, it can be ok. But do not try to solo the bridge PU for a Jaco tone, because you will hear the same sound as previous, only weaker in the lows. Moreover, the cab in effect lacks some bottom-no pillowy supporting sound here no matter how much bass you are able to boost with your electronics/amps.
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I recently sold my 1515+L Schro - not because it failed to perform - just because I was just looking for a change (to a Mesa rig I'm very happy with). I'm not a Bergie expert, but I have to say Sratas nailed the sound I had with my Schroeder - amazingly efficient and effective at cutting through the mix. I also found that, despite the mid-heaviness and lack of native deep bass sound, the Schroeder coupled more easily than most other cabs with stage floors and back walls to produce a much deeper sound than the cabinet delivered in isolation. The Schroeder had a rather raw "bedroom tone" but stepped up into the mix very well. I really do like my new rig, but I think I'll be missing the Schroeder before long... :p
 
#31
jdwinva said:
In my experience comparing Bergantino to Schroder is like asking to compare a brand new Mazarati with a 74 VW Bug. The Bergantino is king. I've owned both. Yes Schro is loud as hell but sounds like nails on a chalkboard compared to a Bergie.
Click to expand...

Ya got that right, pilgrim... :hmm:

When it comes to tone, quality will always trump quantity. Got a great tone, but it's just not loud enough? You can always add more power and/or more cabs.

If you've got all the volume you could ever need - but your tone still sucks, then all that volume doesn't mean diddly squat. In fact, it's even a liability... :atoz:

IMHO, IME, etc. etc.

:hiding:

MM
 
#32
I'm happy with my 1212BMF, now I'm seeking a more organic tube-pre head to replace the LMIII that I just sold.
Either a Walkabout (commonly avalable used) or new MB Fusion... "product in stores within 90 days" ? ? ? Hmmmm.....
 
#33
Sratas summed it up perfectly regarding the 1212L

None of the advantages it offered to me could detract that I was never fully happy with my tone. Maybe if I was on the move every night of the week it would be more relevant

but I too lost months trying different Pre's, dynamics processors, amps, guitars into a schro 1212... so in the end that 100 pound difference cost me lots of hundreds and time....

if the OP can test a berg in his area, and they seem to be a good match for a P Bass reading here, then that wouldbe the logical step I would take

buying blind can be budget suicide ... I know I did it ....
 
#34
MysticMichael said:
Ya got that right, pilgrim... :hmm:

When it comes to tone, quality will always trump quantity. Got a great tone, but it's just not loud enough? You can always add more power and/or more cabs.

If you've got all the volume you could ever need - but your tone still sucks, then all that volume doesn't mean diddly squat. In fact, it's even a liability... :atoz:

IMHO, IME, etc. etc.

:hiding:

MM
Click to expand...

As one who has owned quite a few Berg's and quite a few Schroeders, I just don't get these kind of comments. Comparing a 1212L to an AE410, I'd take the Berg in a minute. Comparing a 115L+ to an AE210, I'd take the Schroeder in a minute.

Berg NV series, not my thing. Schroeder 1212L, not my thing, etc., etc., etc.

Both these companies make such a wide variety of cabs with TOTALLY different voicings, that the idea that one company is 'better' than the other doesn't make much sense to me. Both offer amazing customer service IMO and IME.

I dig them both for what they are, and some cabs within each line really speak to me, while others don't. I will agree that I've actually hated some of Jorg's cabs, while with Jim's cabs, it is more of a 'not my thing' with some of them.
 
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#35
shrigg said:
I'm happy with my 1212BMF, now I'm seeking a more organic tube-pre head to replace the LMIII that I just sold.
Either a Walkabout (commonly avalable used) or new MB Fusion... "product in stores within 90 days" ? ? ? Hmmmm.....
Click to expand...
You're definitely on the right track. From my experience the schroes like a very full and warm sounding amp with lots of girth. I really liked what I heard with the carvin b1500 and/or wt400 with a 1212 (classic series).
 
#39
sratas said:
Hi. I have recently owned a Scro 1212L for 8 months and now I own a Berg AE210, so I think to be able to compare these two side by side.
When discussing on sounds, it is always better to specify the technique, genre etc. I play my own music, that is a sort of ambient rock with massive use of leading fingerstyle basslines and piano, synths, eventually guitar etc. A complex mix to cut. I play a Mayones, a Warwick and a Fender jazz trough a Thunderfunk 550B head.

Scroeder 1212L: very aggressive, the sound is raw, in your face, with a detectable bump in the frequency response ranging from 220 to 500 Hz (I mean, 10-12 dB of bump over the flat response!). This response is achieved mainly by a proprietary construction, resembling a smaller cab. the human ear is very sensitive to midrange frequencies, and so you can hear a very loud sound (efficiency), with great capability to cut trough any mix and hear the pitch of the notes you play. The counterside is that the Scroeder is a one trick pony, you have this particular sound, and only this. If you are not an audiophile guy and prefer to play with the two PUs perfectly blended with a standard powerful rock sound, it can be ok. But do not try to solo the bridge PU for a Jaco tone, because you will hear the same sound as previous, only weaker in the lows. Moreover, the cab in effect lacks some bottom-no pillowy supporting sound here no matter how much bass you are able to boost with your electronics/amps. Moreover, with this kind of frequency personality and humps, certain notes resonate at higher perceived levels compared to other, no matter what dynamic processor you use, because one certain note has the fundamental frequency that is enhanced by that bump in the low mids.

Bergantino AE210: broader than Schro, with a solid performance in the bass register, a huge sound but refined with a upper midrange-highs definition. The sound is not like any other cab loaded with Neodimium that I have tried. The bass is solid and supporting, even with one cab. The mids are transparent and the overall frequency response is more hi-fi and precise compared to Schroder. This sound is not sterile at all and reacts beautifully with every PU position and Eq setting. In effect, with the Berg you can clearly hear any change in your sound, even the smallest and the cab is a chamaleon. It can roar with a neck PU like a vintage Precision, or produce a Jacoesque sound, or even a pillowy dub sound, mainly changing only the technique on the bass. Slap is gorgeous but I do not slap very much, prefering a warm traditional sound. Yes, warm sound with Neodimium.
Click to expand...

+1 to this...I owened a 1212L and own a AE410 (Granted its the 410 not the 210)
I loved how easy it was to move around the 1212L and it cut for me in a situation with a lot of percussion. However I could not get into the general sound and the whole lower mid vibe they have, they are meant to cut and they do, but thats not for everyone. I'm very happy with Berg AE neos.
 

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