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Best 10in replacement speakers on a budget

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by TJBass, Jan 16, 2005.


  1. Picked up a V410 Carvin cabinet for $50 the other day and it was loaded with one carvin ps10 and two peavey 121 speakers, the fourth was missing but I have a spare emminence delta 10 so I stuck it up in there! Would like to get this cab straightened out and sounding better than it does so I can buy a head to power it someday. Any help is appreciated....

    Jay
     
  2. BillyB_from_LZ

    BillyB_from_LZ Supporting Member

    Sep 7, 2000
    Chicago
    Well, Carvin PS10s are $60 plus shipping. I think Avatar charges about $50 plus shipping on Delta 10s.

    There's always a WTB ad here or keep your eyes open on eBay for bargains...
     
  3. Eric Moesle

    Eric Moesle Supporting Member

    Sep 21, 2001
    Columbus OH
    Plenty of good threads here on replacement speaker choice. The skinny: Even the worlds most expensive speaker will perform like crap when put into an enclosure not designed for its individual T/S parameters. I'd recommend finding out which Carvin speakers came with it originally, then get more of those.
     
  4. billfitzmaurice

    billfitzmaurice Commercial User

    Sep 15, 2004
    New Hampshire
    Owner, Bill Fitzmaurice Loudspeaker Design
    The Carvin PS 10 is virtually identical to the Eminence Beta 10 (no wonder, Eminence makes the Carvin driver). An inexpensive alternative is the MCM Electronics 55-1740, $28.30 each in quantities of four or more. These are also quite similar to the driver Ampeg uses in the SVT. All three are superior to the Delta 10, which has specs far better suited to guitar than bass.
     
  5. Eric Moesle

    Eric Moesle Supporting Member

    Sep 21, 2001
    Columbus OH
    Bill speaks the gospel on these issues. I for the life of me can't understand why so many people automatically recommend the Delta 10's for bass use, its a poor speaker for that application. Even the neodymium Deltalite 10's have much better specs for bass.
     
  6. BillyB_from_LZ

    BillyB_from_LZ Supporting Member

    Sep 7, 2000
    Chicago
    Perhaps it's the belief that if it's good enough for Avatar, it's good enough for us... Avatar cabinets are designed by Dave with help from the folks at Eminence...

    Because of this, I find it hard to believe that Eminence would support using a Delta over a Beta if the Beta was a better loudspeaker for the application. During my almost three year knowledge and use of Avatar's products, they've changed 15s at least once, going from Kappas to Kappa Pro 15LF, and the 12s have changed from Kappa 12s to Delta 12LFs...yet the 10s have remained Deltas.
     
  7. Would the MCM Electronics be a better choice than the eminence beta 10's?
     
  8. eots

    eots

    Dec 18, 2004
    Morris, IL.
    By the time you buy 4 new speakers, you'd practically have a new cabinet. Either buy a new 4x10( which is probably what the seller did) or look for 4 identical used or a couple more used to match what you've got.
     
  9. billfitzmaurice

    billfitzmaurice Commercial User

    Sep 15, 2004
    New Hampshire
    Owner, Bill Fitzmaurice Loudspeaker Design
    The Deltas are probably preferred by Avatar due to the wattage ratings, and wattage ratings sell, not Thiele/Small specs. The use of a 1st order HP filter on the Avatar tweeter doesn't bespeak much for their altruistic devotion to technical excellence.
     
  10. billfitzmaurice

    billfitzmaurice Commercial User

    Sep 15, 2004
    New Hampshire
    Owner, Bill Fitzmaurice Loudspeaker Design
    As to the MCM drivers they're probably Chinese knockoffs of the Beta 10, but that doesn't mean that they aren't good drivers. Based on my experience with other MCM drivers I'd be confident that they'd perform quite well.
     
  11. bigbeefdog

    bigbeefdog Who let the dogs in?

    Jul 7, 2003
    Mandeville, LA
    Actually, some time back, I pulled the PS 10's out of a Carvin RC210 and replaced them with Delta 10's, in order to convert it to an 8-ohm cabinet, capable of being paralleled with another 8-ohm cab.

    The Delta 10's are CONSIDERABLY heavier than the Carvins 10's; the magnet structure and the basket are more robust. And the improvement in sound quality of the cab with the Deltas was noticeable, by myself and by others.
     
  12. Matt Call

    Matt Call Supporting Member

    Aug 1, 2004
    Minneapolis, MN
  13. billfitzmaurice

    billfitzmaurice Commercial User

    Sep 15, 2004
    New Hampshire
    Owner, Bill Fitzmaurice Loudspeaker Design
    Delta 10s do have a larger magnet and overall heavier construction than Beta 10's, so visually they would appear to be a better speaker as far as bass goes. But they also have a lower Qts, higher fs and half the xmax of the Beta 10, all of which combine to give it far less bass capability than the Beta 10. Optimally tuned in a 2 cubic foot vented box the Beta has an f3 of 60 Hz, the Delta 70 Hz. In a sealed box of the same size the Beta f3 is 75 Hz, the Delta 200 Hz. Even with equal f3 values the xmax of the Delta would limit it to half the output capability of the Beta at low frequencies.That doesn't mean that some might not prefer the sound of the Delta. But based purely on its performance as opposed to its appearance I don't recommend the Delta as a bass speaker. On the other hand it would make a far better driver for guitar than the Beta.
     
  14. I'll be honest and tell ya I have no idea what f's and xmax stuff does, but if the deltas are not suited for bass why would avatar use them? I used to own an avatar 410 with the deltas and I thought it sounded way better than the carvin cab I had before, and after owning an 80's era ampeg cab, I have to say I liked the sound of the avatar cab better, and it definately could handle more power.

    And as far as buying another cab instead of speakers, I highly doubt I could get a new cab with new speakers loaded cheaper than I could buy three new deltas and just install in my used cab which is in very good condition despite having a ghetto speaker configuration.

    I'm not going to tour with this cab! I had to sell my last cab to help with christmas, hence the reason I couldn't pass up this $50 cab. Right now it works, and when I get an amp to power it it will do for what I want it to do and I will probably buy a speaker at a time in order to spread the costs over a few paydays.
     
  15. BillyB_from_LZ

    BillyB_from_LZ Supporting Member

    Sep 7, 2000
    Chicago
  16. patrickj

    patrickj

    Aug 13, 2001
    Baltimore, MD
  17. Eric Moesle

    Eric Moesle Supporting Member

    Sep 21, 2001
    Columbus OH
    They are IN FACT Eminence made to Aguilar's specs. I once ordered a replacement 10 directly from Aguilar, and in the box I received had an Eminence data sheet for it. I'm sure the inclusion of the sheet was an oversight, but enlightening nontheless. Most manufacturers custom spec their drivers through Eminence. Highly respected company.
     
  18. Sundogue

    Sundogue

    Apr 26, 2001
    Wausau, WI
    If it sounds good, it is good. Only you can be the judge as to what sounds best for you. I've taken alot of crappy old cabs and made them usable by throwing better speakers in them...despite what the numbers say.
     
  19. Eric Moesle

    Eric Moesle Supporting Member

    Sep 21, 2001
    Columbus OH
    He said he wanted it to sound BETTER than the Carvin and Emincences, so putting the cheapest speakers in there on the planet likely won't acheive his goals and he'd be better off standing pat.
     
  20. patrickj

    patrickj

    Aug 13, 2001
    Baltimore, MD
    He said he wanted it better sounding than a cabinet with 3 drivers (2 different types/brands) and a completely missing 4th driver; or a cabinet with 4 drivers but 3 of them being different - depending on how you read it. Even cheap drivers will sound better than that (largely because they will all be the same) .

    Unless I'm missing something elsewhere in the post...