Best 4 Ohm Driver for a Fender Rumble 100 Combo

[John D Harris]

Looking for a reasonably priced 12" driver for a Rumble 100 Combo - 4 Ohm required (the OEM driver is 4 Ohm).

The stock driver seems a bit strident in the midrange - upper midrange (especially as SPL goes up), understandably, it does not handle a low 'B' at higher SPL, and it does not seem to handle all of the power the amp can put out without sounding stressed.

I found this Faital Pro 12FE300 that looks like it 'might' be a good match, but I'm not sure about the smallness of the internal volume of the combo or what changes the ports might need.

Faital Pro 12FE300

I am open to discussion and other suggestions.

 

[agedhorse]

Looking for a reasonably priced 12" driver for a Rumble 100 Combo - 4 Ohm required (the OEM driver is 4 Ohm).

The stock driver seems a bit strident in the midrange - upper midrange (especially as SPL goes up), understandably, it does not handle a low 'B' at higher SPL, and it does not seem to handle all of the power the amp can put out without sounding stressed.

I found this Faital Pro 12FE300 that looks like it 'might' be a good match, but I'm not sure about the smallness of the internal volume of the combo or what changes the ports might need.

Faital Pro 12FE300

I am open to discussion and other suggestions.

If you really can't live with the stock driver, you will have a tough time finding a better replacement. The stock driver was optimized at 4 ohms for a small box and a lower power handling which results is a reasonably good sensitivity number.

The driver you posted is 2dB LESS sensitive than the 8 ohm version, one of the big challenges in a higher powered 4 ohm driver. You give up in sensitivity almost what you gain in power.

IME, in this class of combo, you are usually better off with the stock parts.

 

[Zooberwerx]

Looking for a reasonably priced 12" driver for a Rumble 100 Combo - 4 Ohm required (the OEM driver is 4 Ohm).

The stock driver seems a bit strident in the midrange - upper midrange (especially as SPL goes up), understandably, it does not handle a low 'B' at higher SPL, and it does not seem to handle all of the power the amp can put out without sounding stressed.

I found this Faital Pro 12FE300 that looks like it 'might' be a good match, but I'm not sure about the smallness of the internal volume of the combo or what changes the ports might need.

Faital Pro 12FE300

I am open to discussion and other suggestions.

What other peripherals (filters, EQ's, etc.) are in-play or available?

Riis

 

[DJ Bebop]

Looking for a reasonably priced 12" driver for a Rumble 100 Combo - 4 Ohm required (the OEM driver is 4 Ohm).

The stock driver seems a bit strident in the midrange - upper midrange (especially as SPL goes up), understandably, it does not handle a low 'B' at higher SPL, and it does not seem to handle all of the power the amp can put out without sounding stressed.

I found this Faital Pro 12FE300 that looks like it 'might' be a good match, but I'm not sure about the smallness of the internal volume of the combo or what changes the ports might need.

Faital Pro 12FE300

I am open to discussion and other suggestions.

If you think you would like a Faital Pro 12. I would pull the head out of the Rumble and put it with this…

1x12 Subway Bass | Mesa/Boogie

Our most compact Subway Cabinet, the 1x12 Ultra-Lite combines finely-tuned porting, Top-grade ply, aircraft-style bracing, a super-responsive and efficient neodymium 12” Driver and our musical sounding HF Driver to create an amazing compact Bass cabinet that can handle smaller venues...

www.mesaboogie.com

 

[John D Harris]

What other peripherals (filters, EQ's, etc.) are in-play or available?

Riis

My current bass guitar has a Markbass onboard 3-band preamp.

I mostly run it passive (no passive tone control) into a Two Notes Opus which has extensive EQ capabilities, 3 different EQ section options, one of which has a Custom 5-band semi-parametric EQ + adjustable HPF & adjustable LPF - which "sort of" undo's a lot of the R100c's weaknesses.

 

[John D Harris]

If you really can't live with the stock driver, you will have a tough time finding a better replacement. The stock driver was optimized at 4 ohms for a small box and a lower power handling which results is a reasonably good sensitivity number.

The driver you posted is 2dB LESS sensitive than the 8 ohm version, one of the big challenges in a higher powered 4 ohm driver. You give up in sensitivity almost what you gain in power.

IME, in this class of combo, you are usually better off with the stock parts.

Thank you very much for your input.

My thought was that 2dB is currently unusable due to driver distress, even with the 'E' or 'A' string (at least run 'somewhat' flat and no processing).

I can get more SPL with better tone out of it massaging it with the Opus, so I guess I'm looking for a fix that I already have with the Opus.

I was hoping to get a cleaner starting point from which to build, resulting a bit higher max, clean SPL.

 

[agedhorse]

Thank you very much for your input.

My thought was that 2dB is currently unusable due to driver distress, even with the 'E' or 'A' string (at least run 'somewhat' flat and no processing).

I can get more SPL with better tone out of it massaging it with the Opus, so I guess I'm looking for a fix that I already have with the Opus.

I was hoping to get a cleaner starting point from which to build, resulting a bit higher max, clean SPL.

How do you know the driver is the limitation? How did you come to the conclusion of 2dB?

If you need more volume or more clean operating headroom, you really should look for a better tool for your needs. It will be less expensive and better sounding in the long run.

 

[John D Harris]

How do you know the driver is the limitation? How did you come to the conclusion of 2dB?

If you need more volume or more clean operating headroom, you really should look for a better tool for your needs. It will be less expensive and better sounding in the long run.

I was making a presumption & estimation based on the difference between running my bass guitar into the input and cranking the Gain and Master compared to running the Opus into the FX Return and cranking the Preset Level and the Volume on the Opus and the Master on the R100c.

Seems like the Preamp section on the combo has more available gain than the Opus does, so maybe I'm not coming to the right conclusions.

I defer to your wisdom.

I actually doubt that I would need more volume.

 

[Wasnex]

I think the best advice is to invest in a better amp, rather "putting lipstick on a pig." Chances are installing a new driver is not going to resolve the underlying limits of your amp.

People are generally positive on the Rumble series. But there is only so much you should expect from an entry-level 100W amp with a 12" speaker. I would consider what you have to be a fairly nice practice amp. You could use it for low volume situations, but it's fairly easy to get in a situation where it will fall short.

I have a GK 700RB/112 combo. Not top of the line, but pro quality kit. This amp delivers 225W to the internal 12". I used this amp with a corporate/wedding band. It got the job done, in that nobody complained. But I felt it lacked headroom, which I found frustrating. Luckily this combo can also push an 8 ohm extension cab. Total power available at 4 ohms is 380W. Always plenty of volume when I added an extension cab.


If you just throw a random driver into the cab, it might work fine, but odds are it won't. If the driver and cab are not a good pairing, it may sound bad or you may wind up blowing the driver. If you insist on replacing the speaker here is what you need to do:

• Measure the internal dimensions of the cab
• Measure the dimension of the port(s).
• Set a budget and identify drivers with appropriate frequency response, impedance, power handling, and sensitivity.
  • You will need to gather the full Thiele Small (T/S) parameters for all of candidate drivers you want to consider.
• The T/S parameters will be loaded into an app or computer program, along with the cab's internal volume and port dimensions. The app or program models how the driver and cab work as a system. Somebody here will probably be willing to help you with the modeling.

 

[John D Harris]

I think the best advice is to invest in a better amp, rather "putting lipstick on a pig." Chances are installing a new driver is not going to resolve the underlying limits of your amp.

People are generally positive on the Rumble series. But there is only so much you should expect from an entry-level 100W amp with a 12" speaker. I would consider what you have to be a fairly nice practice amp. You could use it for low volume situations, but it's fairly easy to get in a situation where it will fall short.

I have a GK 700RB/112 combo. Not top of the line, but pro quality kit. This amp delivers 225W to the internal 12". I used this amp with a corporate/wedding band. It got the job done, in that nobody complained. But I felt it lacked headroom, which I found frustrating. Luckily this combo can also push an 8 ohm extension cab. Total power available at 4 ohms is 380W. Always plenty of volume when I added an extension cab.


If you just throw a random driver into the cab, it might work fine, but odds are it won't. If the driver and cab are not a good pairing, it may sound bad or you may wind up blowing the driver. If you insist on replacing the speaker here is what you need to do:

• Measure the internal dimensions of the cab
• Measure the dimension of the port(s).
• Set a budget and identify drivers with appropriate frequency response, impedance, power handling, and sensitivity.
  • You will need to gather the full Thiele Small (T/S) parameters for all of candidate drivers you want to consider.
• The T/S parameters will be loaded into an app or computer program, along with the cab's internal volume and port dimensions. The app or program models how the driver and cab work as a system. Somebody here will probably be willing to help you with the modeling.

Thank you very much!

The person that I bought it from used, had tried a Celestion BN12-300S (4) driver in it and said it yielded a bit higher clean SPL, along with a bit smoother midrange, better higher midrange, and (at higher SPL) a bit better low end response.

Someone in another thread measured the enclosure at 1.3 cu ft.

Here is a screenshot of the parameters from Celestion's website:

 

[agedhorse]

Then give it a try, it’s only money if it doesn’t work out.

 

[Wasnex]

Thank you very much!

The person that I bought it from used, had tried a Celestion BN12-300S (4) driver in it and said it yielded a bit higher clean SPL, along with a bit smoother midrange, better higher midrange, and (at higher SPL) a bit better low end response.

Someone in another thread measured the enclosure at 1.3 cu ft.

Here is a screenshot of the parameters from Celestion's website:

View attachment 7279411

If you have the port measurements, someone may be willing/able to model the Celestion for you.

 

[John D Harris]

If you have the port measurements, someone may be willing/able to model the Celestion for you.

I'll look for them.

I saw them in a upgrade thread recently.

 

[tvbop]

Interesting. I found the Rumble 100 is so shy of any useable mid range as to be virtually un-giggable. Switched to Ampeg which has more mid range.

 

[Zooberwerx]

My current bass guitar has a Markbass onboard 3-band preamp.

I mostly run it passive (no passive tone control) into a Two Notes Opus which has extensive EQ capabilities, 3 different EQ section options, one of which has a Custom 5-band semi-parametric EQ + adjustable HPF & adjustable LPF - which "sort of" undo's a lot of the R100c's weaknesses.

Not familiar with the Opus but it appears to be a solid kit with all the "solutions" I would normally suggest. If I couldn't coax a more-than-passable response from the Rumble, I'd cut & run...perhaps a different amp? You're looking for a predictability when swapping-out the driver and I'm just not seeing it.

Riis

 

[Akiyama]

Looking for a reasonably priced 12" driver for a Rumble 100 Combo - 4 Ohm required (the OEM driver is 4 Ohm).

The stock driver seems a bit strident in the midrange - upper midrange (especially as SPL goes up), understandably, it does not handle a low 'B' at higher SPL, and it does not seem to handle all of the power the amp can put out without sounding stressed.

I found this Faital Pro 12FE300 that looks like it 'might' be a good match, but I'm not sure about the smallness of the internal volume of the combo or what changes the ports might need.

Faital Pro 12FE300

I am open to discussion and other suggestions.

I have a couple questions that may serve to help you. What is/are your signal chain and settings? Are you using new strings? I notice a tendency for my beloved Rumble 100 to have a bit of forwardness (strident/inharmonic distortion?) in the upper mids (without any of the preset tone buttons pressed) and the controls at 12 o'clock. I find it is easy to tame with turning the treble control on the amp to 10 and rolling my tone control back on my 4-string Jazz bass. (I will post an image of a typical output from the R100 below). I find engaging the "vintage" button helps to smooth out the upper mids quality of the R100.

New strings will give you angry piano tone which highlights that characteristics that you mention about the R100.

For a brief time, I "budget" bi-amped with the Ampeg RB-110 and the R100. The RB-110 had a tendency to smooth out the quality of midrange of the R100. Perhaps that might be a pathway for you?

Sometimes I have some brief downtime and wander into guitar stores and try out equipment. Of the budget amps, I find the MarkBass CMB line to generally gel better with active basses than the Rumble and Ampeg lines.

I would recommend that you connect with the Rumble Club, especially, @G-Dog. The community there can likely guide you well.

I was making a presumption & estimation based on the difference between running my bass guitar into the input and cranking the Gain and Master compared to running the Opus into the FX Return and cranking the Preset Level and the Volume on the Opus and the Master on the R100c.

Seems like the Preamp section on the combo has more available gain than the Opus does, so maybe I'm not coming to the right conclusions.

I defer to your wisdom.

I actually doubt that I would need more volume.

If you use your Opus significantly, perhaps an FRFR amp/cab might be a better long-term pathway for you?

Interesting. I found the Rumble 100 is so shy of any useable mid range as to be virtually un-giggable. Switched to Ampeg which has more mid range.

What bass are you using and what are your EQ settings? What do you consider useable midrange? This is what I get out of my R100:

Settings/conditions: Fender Jazz bass with "matured" Super 7250s, PV ‘62 pickups, Rumble 100, no tone shaper presets engaged, gain at 1 0'clock, tone controls at 12 o’clock, except treble at 10 o’clock, volume at 8:30, measured at 1.5 feet away and on-axis, Open E, picked with med gel pick with a moderate downstroke motion, neck 100%, bridge 50%, tone 70%. Purple line is peak, yellow line is the level after approximately 2 seconds measured in a 12 x 12 studio with carpeting and moderate amounts of furniture.

 

[basss]

Hey y'all. That's my combo that was sold to John and I did have the Celestion driver in it. Here's my pm to him which sums up my thoughts:

The Celestion was generally smoother through the mids and a bit more extended highs, the stock driver is more peaky with a honkier sound in the mids and less natural high end. Not a night and day difference but you can hear it.

The difference in the lows shows up more at high volume. The stock driver starts to compress a bit and sounds midrangy where the Celestion contiues to get bigger in the lows as the volume goes up.

Again the combo works well with the stock driver though, it's not like it's a whole different amp with the new speaker, but you can hear a difference.

If you want to squeeze a bit more from this amp I think a driver swap can help. There's a long thread about putting an Eminence s2012 in the 8 ohm version and people seemed unanimously happy with the results. I think the stock driver in this combo is OK but is maybe the weakest link in the chain.

 

[JimChjones]

One thing to consider is that you are getting into a R&D exercise to match up a replacement driver with the cab. This is a non trivial exercise, you really need facilities, test equipment, all the rest that the likes of Mr Horse has in a well equipped test suite. Without it you're trying to replicate the work of a skilled engineer with neither their experience or their facilities. Its a big ask.

My own experience is that it isn't too long before you get fed up with the game, and think **** that will do. If the thought of spending hours and hours with charts and measurements, and trying longer and shorter ports, different amounts of damping materials and all that appeals go for it. There are endless things to try.

But if you just want to play bass then bite the bullet and get a higher spec rig.

 

[G-Dog]

... ... ...
I would recommend that you connect with the Rumble Club, especially, @G-Dog. The community there can likely guide you well.
... ... ...

Thanks for the shout-out, Aki, Rumbler #1645. But John has already connected with the Rumble Club as Rumbler #1857 after sharing his sonically oriented Rumble journey with us there for quite a while.

Actually, in this case, where John is chasing his own sonic tastes (it seems to me) through speaker replacement, it's probably better that he get a broader input than just The Club. Yes, The Club is the place to discuss different settings with those familiar with the same controls, as you have suggested for instance. But the whole of the Amps & Cabs TB forum is more likely to have experience with many different speakers and with the tuning techniques of speaker replacement.

But, @John D Harris, if you DO find a successful replacement, please consider sharing it with the Fender Rumble Club, won't you?

 

[Akiyama]

Thanks for the shout-out, Aki, Rumbler #1645. But John has already connected with the Rumble Club as Rumbler #1857 after sharing his sonically oriented Rumble journey with us there for quite a while.

Actually, in this case, where John is chasing his own sonic tastes (it seems to me) through speaker replacement, it's probably better that he get a broader input than just The Club. Yes, The Club is the place to discuss different settings with those familiar with the same controls, as you have suggested for instance. But the whole of the Amps & Cabs TB forum is more likely to have experience with many different speakers and with the tuning techniques of speaker replacement.

But, @John D Harris, if you DO find a successful replacement, please consider sharing it with the Fender Rumble Club, won't you?

I missed John's discussion in the Rumble Club. My apologies. Thanks for clarifying the situation.