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Double Bass Best Cable for the Amplified Double Bass

Why would you spend the extra money on a Monster
Cable when a Quantum, Live Wire or whatever?

$10: [Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
$25+:Shop Monster Cable | Under $25 | Musician's Friend

If what matters is a quality, reliable cable that can be repaired if needed, don't cheaper cables meet that criteria?

Maybe you bought the $12 one with molded plugs. :rolleyes:

I agree with you. As I said, it wasn't one of the expensive Monster ones and it's held up fine. Were I to buy another one, I'd likely go with what you suggested.
 
Cables do sound different, no matter what has been said here. Subtle, maybe--often times not. The good news is that the best sounding cable is not much different in price than most cheaper stuff if you make it yourself. I have done blind tests with myself and others. And we could consistently tell the difference. Some expensive cable has more high end "sheen", some have more bloom in the low end. I have been given a lot of exotic cables to try.(Cardas cable that would probably cost $300 per cable and various others including the best Monster). I was in Italy and an engineer gave me a very expensive cable to try. At first I thought it was amazing, but all of the low end "bloom" tended to make it harder to cut through. We then tried the cable I use which is Canare guitar cable (GS6). Less than a buck per foot. This cable has always been considered an audiophile "best buy". And very durable. It uses an 18 guage conductor, Braided sheilding---nothing fancy. After changing cables, the guy in Italy agreed that while his cable sounded a little more "audiophile" the Canare sounded more tight and focused. with Neutric connectors it's about $25 for a 20 ft. cable. The exact same cable is sold from various manufacturers as a high end guitar cable at $50. If you buy 50 ft. the price goes down to >80 per foot and at 100 ft. .70/ft.
 
Thank you Mike. There was a thread about this a few years ago and there were the same entrenched positions. Can I or can't I hear the difference? I know that I can hear the difference in cables, capacitors and tubes in my stereo equipment. I certainly believe that many people hear no difference at all and that's cool. I don't need anybody telling me that I can't possibly hear what I hear because the scienctific theory asserts there can be no audible difference. It's pointless to try to convert either side.

I find the Quantum cable to be slightly veiled compared to a George L which has a clearer, brighter tone. Back in the 80's I made a cable from Canare Star Quad mic cable and some brass ends. That cable sounded very warm and smooth compared to a cheap Live Wire which is harsh. Regretfully, I lost that somewhere.

Really, regarding cables for DB I believe the differences are so subtle as to make the argument moot and I choose a solid, reliable cable. There are too many other things to think about for ME to really care. That's me.

Peace.
 
For years I haven't been thinking about cables at all. Until about two years ago, when I was checking some amps at local shop. In the middle of trying different amps I switched from my cable to cable provided by the shop. The difference was as audible, as difference between amps brands. The shop's cable made my sound much cleaner, especially in the middle register, which sounded kind of muddy with my own cable. So I bought the shop cable, it was german Sommer guitar cable, nothing that fancy or expensive, but the difference was huge (I don't remember what my old cable was, but for sure it was standard quality guitar cable, nothing extremely cheap).
 
It's easy to demonstrate objectively when individuals can't hear what they say they can when they are merely giving subjective reports. One simply employs a controlled experiment in which the listener has to choose which interval or sample of sound is "different." A step up from that is asking the listener to identify or label. The beauty is that there is an objective right or wrong answer in such tasks. It's not merely theory. These are objective measures. If you claim, subjectively, to hear a difference but you can't actually make the discrimination in a controlled setting, then other factors were mediating your report. The most difficult auditory conditions under which people can discern differences are open-ended comparisons of "running" sound, especially when the samples of sound are not identical. The conditions that are the most "sensitive" are those under which those factors are controlled. Yet, time and time again, decade after decade, the "golden eared" folks who claim to hear subtle differences under the most difficult conditions can't do so reliably under controlled conditions!

Changing cables, capacitors, tubes, etc. and claiming to hear a difference is entirely subjective. Most of the time, you know you made the change and you attend to different aspects of the signal under open-ended uncontrolled conditions. Bias becomes a huge factor.

Now, in the case of capacitors, it is the case that, where audio signals are concerned, there are some poor choices that can be made. Some are substantially non-linear and could alter what's heard. Assuming those poor choices are not made, the purported differences do little more than fuel the production and sale of grossly overpriced components. So it is with cables. If you compare a "standard" cable, of the brands and types discussed here to a poorly-made one with strange capacitance and/or impedance you might reliably discern a difference.

Sometimes theory does enter the picture. That's when objective measures of the signals reveal that any spectro-temporal differences are well beyond the ability of any human to discern them. This is not a "soft" science at all.

It's true that there is no point in trying to convert either side. People who want to believe something in the absence of any empirical, objective, or factual support and/or in spite of overwhelming evidence to the contrary will simply persist in doing so. There's no point in logical argument if logic is eschewed. Remember the green highlighter on the edge of CDs.

If you hear differences among cables (leaving out strange designs intended to alter the spectrum), then you'll probably want to have one of these right away.

Be sure to read the reviews from satisfied owners who "know" they hear the differences it makes.

So, if you "know" you hear differences among cables, then, by all means, buy the ones that make you happy and enjoy life. It won't cost all that much over time. Far be it from me to try to make you unhappy. The satisfied owners of the product I linked to above seem very happy as well. :)
 
It's true that there is no point in trying to convert either side.


I agree. To this I would only add that this being the case, it's not terribly productive to take parting shots at the other side on the way out of the door, either. There is a big difference between types of cable and green highlighter on the edge of a CD. While I don't worry too much about whether I can hear differences in cables, when it came time to buy my last one, I took the advice of a good friend who works in the business and bought the one he said was best sounding and best made. It was not near either the most expensive or least expensive in the store, and I haven't had any issues with it. Damned if I can remember the name, though...
 
I subscribe to the "more you pay, better you think it sounds" theory. Any difference in sound is indiscernible live.

My number one consideration when buying new cable is durability. I usually make my own using Canare cable and Neutrik connectors. Previously I used Monster cable and Switchcraft.

DIU saves considerable $. You can buy enough wire and connectors to make 5 cables for what you would pay for one in a music store. If you don't have the soldering chops to DIU, ask a friend.
 
An extreme example of theory and science is the late (I think) Julian Hursch (sp?) of the late Stereo Review magazine. He would regularly review an inexpensive solid state receiver, do extensive testing and often argue that it would sound as good as an expensive tube amp. Maybe even better because the THD was maybe .001 percent as opposed to 1 percent on a tube amp. He failed to account for the fact that the distortion from transistor amps is primarilly odd order and that of tube amps even order. Fed a 100hz signal, a tube will add 200, 400, etc. Essentially, the listener will hear the higher octaves. I will take that any day over 100, 300, 500, etc.

My point is that he held the belief that there couldn't be any difference and used HIS science to support his position and ignored the science that would tend to undercut his position.

There is much in the world that science can explain and much that it cannot.

That's my position. I have no interest in trying to convince you or anybody else, just to lay it out there.
 
I agree. To this I would only add that this being the case, it's not terribly productive to take parting shots at the other side on the way out of the door, either. There is a big difference between types of cable and green highlighter on the edge of a CD.

I posted what are my thoughts. I may not be able to convince the "other side," but I sure will say what I believe. That's not a parting shot but it's interesting that you think it is because the "green highlighter" proponents were every bit as serious and convinced as are those who claim to hear subtle differences among cables. You're making a judgment that one makes sense and the other doesn't. Hmm... That's your right as it is mine to suggest that neither makes sense. Not a parting shot, but my point of view.


While I don't worry too much about whether I can hear differences in cables, when it came time to buy my last one, I took the advice of a good friend who works in the business and bought the one he said was best sounding and best made. It was not near either the most expensive or least expensive in the store, and I haven't had any issues with it. Damned if I can remember the name, though...

If it was well-made, then you shouldn't have any issue with it.

An extreme example of theory and science is the late (I think) Julian Hursch (sp?) of the late Stereo Review magazine. He would regularly review an inexpensive solid state receiver, do extensive testing and often argue that it would sound as good as an expensive tube amp. Maybe even better because the THD was maybe .001 percent as opposed to 1 percent on a tube amp. He failed to account for the fact that the distortion from transistor amps is primarilly odd order and that of tube amps even order. Fed a 100hz signal, a tube will add 200, 400, etc. Essentially, the listener will hear the higher octaves. I will take that any day over 100, 300, 500, etc.

Actually, that's not what happened at all. What Julian missed was "Otala distortion," now known as transient intermodulation distortion or TIM. It is easily measurable. Had anyone done the objective discrimination experiments, it would have been straightforward to determine that people could, in fact, reliably detect it. Pointing out a failure of decades old theoretical knowledge is not an argument or excuse for throwing up one's hands and saying that science is just unreliable.
 
Instead of getting hissy or digging in on their positions, I would advise those on *both* sides of the cable question to do some A/B tests. Blind, of course, and double-blind even better. The cable question is particularly well-suited to testing because there need be very little delay time between test cases, and neither the listener nor the demonstrator has to see or touch the cable, so both can be kept free of bias.

I love A/B tests, whether they're for food, wine, speakers, fiddles, cables, or whatever. Lots of fun and very informative. No one should be afraid to subject his or her beliefs beliefs to rational objective test.
 
I use a Gage Realist Soundclip on my bass and want to know what the best cable for amplifying my double bass is -I currently use a "Quantum" cable (I dont feel like going to look at it.) that I need to replace because it is simply too short (something ridiculous like 4 or 5 feet long :rollno:).

If money was not an option, what would YOU get?

Analysis plus, pro oval studio is nice. You could also go for audioquest everest cables and put instrument plugs on... that might work too.
 
An extreme example of theory and science is the late (I think) Julian Hursch (sp?) of the late Stereo Review magazine. He would regularly review an inexpensive solid state receiver, do extensive testing and often argue that it would sound as good as an expensive tube amp. Maybe even better because the THD was maybe .001 percent as opposed to 1 percent on a tube amp. He failed to account for the fact that the distortion from transistor amps is primarilly odd order and that of tube amps even order. Fed a 100hz signal, a tube will add 200, 400, etc. Essentially, the listener will hear the higher octaves. I will take that any day over 100, 300, 500, etc.

My point is that he held the belief that there couldn't be any difference and used HIS science to support his position and ignored the science that would tend to undercut his position.


clink: Ah yes. Julian Hirsch. He would test cheap and expensive equipment to see if the specs were correct and the conclusion was usually the same: ".... if you are in the market for a tube (or whatever) amplifier this one is worth checking out."
No help whatsoever to anyone who needed information about how it sounded within a given equipment set-up.
Re cables....I remember hooking up some thermostat wire from my audio amp (Hafler) to a set of Infinity speakers. The detail was better than a set of very expensive speaker cables (can't remember the name) that I had previously bought.
As far as instrument wires go for my upright bass.....I have always used Yorkville or any brand with Belden cable and good quality connectors. Never had a problem and I have never had to throw one out because of crackling.
 
We've done blind tests. Maybe the differences may not be big enough for some, but they are there. I was in France and a sound guy gave me a power cable to try. (with my Doubler) It had a small box in line (1" by 2" by 3" approx) It costs about $150. For a dumbass power cable. I played one set with mine. Second set I tried his. I was pissed. I noticed a pronounced difference right away. More visceral thump. A feeling of the notes having more "air" or separation. I enjoyed walking more. The drummer noticed.The only thing I can tell that it has is a high pass filter to filter out electrical junk. Sorry, I'm not too articulate as far as electronic stuff. Later in the tour I spent 2 hours back and forth. The pricey one not only sounded better, but my musical experience was more fulfilling. I bought the stupid thing. And am glad I did. This is different from the wacky stereo guys that are adhering tiny discs to their speakers and claiming a difference. Maybe it's there but I couldn't tell. The difference here is that with my gear it not only defines my sound, but also my function. Maybe I can be be misled as far as sound, (although I think not) but as far as function----if my walking feel has noticeably more authority----that's what I care about.
Use the Canare GS6 instead of the Star Quad. It's a LOT more durable. And has better bottom.
 
@ Martin,
back in the '90's I spent about $300 on an Audioquest Emerald cable to run from my tonearm to the preamp and believe it sounded better than the cheap thing with red and white RCA plugs. Then several years ago I took some very fine enameled copper wire (magnet wire) and made my own. I simply loosely twisted two wires together +- for each channel so there is no shield at all but no perceptable increase in noise. Damned if my stuff didn't blow away the expensive stuff. Without knowing what I did, listeners noticed the change. No, I didn't make them wear a blindfold. :D

Point? There is surely a measurable difference but I dunno what it is. The more expensive stuff isn't necessarily better.

Again, I don't hear enough difference in instrument cables to care one way or the other.

@ Drurb,
Thanks for making my point. Julian used the science available to him at the time to support his position. You use the science available to you. I sincerely hope that someday science is able to explain all the secrets of the universe but that ain't gonna happen tomorrow. Agree to disagree, please.

@OP,
Buy a good, well made cable and fagetaboutit. Go practice.
 
Mike,
Ferrite chokes can be purchased that clamp over interconnects and/or power cables which are known to clean up the signal. I suspect that is a big part of your deal. Never tried expensive power cables and don't really want to go down that road for fear of feeding that habit.
 
@ Drurb,
Thanks for making my point. Julian used the science available to him at the time to support his position. You use the science available to you. I sincerely hope that someday science is able to explain all the secrets of the universe but that ain't gonna happen tomorrow. Agree to disagree, please.

I agree to disagree but I didn't make your point. I said:

What Julian missed was "Otala distortion," now known as transient intermodulation distortion or TIM. It is easily measurable. Had anyone done the objective discrimination experiments, it would have been straightforward to determine that people could, in fact, reliably detect it.

So, he wasn't using the science available to him.