Best High Power Amp if Cost is not a Concern

[heavyd3253]

I've been playing bass for about 15 years now. With the exception of a small 1x10 GK amp when i first started, my main combo for playing by myself and occasionally with friends has been a MarkBass CMD112. I was blown away when I first played it and shocked by how loud and clean it was. I also bought a Markbass Little Mark Tube 800 and an 8 ohm MarkBass 4x10 rear port cab for shows. That had not gotten much use but recently with the new band I'm in I started using it again. I have never pushed that beyond 12:00 Gain or even 11:00 Master and its LOUD and clean.
So I got to thinking that maybe MarkBass, while very good, isn't the BEST amp out there (I know "best" is subjective and not the right term anyway but bear with me). So I bought a Mesa Subway TT-800 because I always liked Mesa guitar amps and that model seemed the best of what they offer. I liked the two channels and the idea of one being a "warmer more vintage tube channel" while the Subway channel is more like the "modern solid state tight, clean, scooped and punchy" amps such as my MarkBass. I also purchased an Aguilar SL210 and DB112 to go with it because I did not like the Subway cabs.
To be honest though, the Mesa isn't what I thought it would be. It's good but I often need to take the Gain to 1-2:00 and the Master to 1:00 to be heard with my band. It doesn't cut through the mix the way the Markbass does either. I've tried different cab combinations but keep arriving at the same conclusion. The Markbass is just "better."
But I still want to find the ultimate warm and punchy bass amp with plenty of headroom. On board compressor would be nice but not necessary. So I've been looking at the Genzler Magellan 800, Ashdown CTM 200 or 300, Ashdown ABM 600 DualVu EVO IV 600, GK Fusion 800 or an SVT Classic (which is tough because I have mostly single 8 ohm cabs I want to use). I know its tough to figure this stuff out without actually playing them but there's no where around me that would have these amps in stock. I can play the 2 Ashdowns at a place about an hour away but thats it. So any feedback or opinions on which I should order or try out would be appreciated. Or maybe I'm missing something on my list. I thought about Bergantino too but i can't find enough about them to justify adding them to the mix. I already have enough to choose from and the ones listed all have pros and cons. A true overdrive or distortion channel is not necessary beyong what my Mesa TT can do now which is a "pushed" sound with the tube Gain knob dimed but hardly a fuzz or a distortion. I play Warwick 4 strings mostly if that makes any difference.
Any help or advice is appreciated.
Thanks Guys!

 

[fdeck]

To be honest though, the Mesa isn't what I thought it would be. It's good but I often need to take the Gain to 1-2:00 and the Master to 1:00 to be heard with my band.

Granted, it's just my personality, "a bird in the hand" and all that. I'd rather try to get the most out of existing gear than try something different, until I've really explored every possibility. Unless the Mesa is really running out of juice, you should be able to make yourself heard. The knob settings don't tell you how much of its available power you're actually using. Can you get more out of it? Don't be afraid, unless the amp is a lot more powerful than the speaker ratings. Also, the tone knobs can be your friend for getting a sound that's more audible with your bass and playing style.

If you actually are running out of juice with that rig, a discussion with the band about volume levels might be in order.

 

[Jaco who?]

Your cab choice might be the root of your problem. An SL210 with a DB112 might be different enough in voicing that you're experiencing some phase cancellations. Either two SL series or two DB series Aguilars might have been a better choice - and a 210 and 112 might not be enough displacement/volume to begin with.

 

[joelns]

I have a TT-800 and tend to run the gain on the Boogie channel up to 2:00 and often have the volume at 1:00 on stage. There's still a long way to go and a lot of headroom. But the cabs are critical to the equation. I'm running a Subway 1x15 and a 1x12 with the amp set at 4 ohms. If I double that cab combination, master volume doesn't get anywhere near 1:00. It moves a LOT of air.

What cabs are you using?

 

[heavyd3253]

Granted, it's just my personality, "a bird in the hand" and all that. I'd rather try to get the most out of existing gear than try something different, until I've really explored every possibility. Unless the Mesa is really running out of juice, you should be able to make yourself heard. The knob settings don't tell you how much of its available power you're actually using. Can you get more out of it? Don't be afraid, unless the amp is a lot more powerful than the speaker ratings. Also, the tone knobs can be your friend for getting a sound that's more audible with your bass and playing style.

If you actually are running out of juice with that rig, a discussion with the band about volume levels might be in order.

Fdeck, I totally hear where you're coming from with exploring the settings on the Mesa fully before writing it off. I normally turn the Mids up to 3:00 or so and keep them on the "Normal" setting on the Boogie channel 90% of the time. I use the Hi-Pass filter a little too to clean up the bottom end. I keep it on High Input, no deep or bright turned on.
One thing I find about the Markbass is that having the mids split between High and Low really adds flexibility. On the MarkBass I crank the LoMids and drop the HiMids slightly. This allows it to really cut through in my opinion, whether I'm using the 2x10 Aguilar or the 4x10 MarkBass.
Also, volume isn't my main issue with the Mesa, I know I have room to go with the knobs. It's more that I was surprised out how different the Volume setting were between two different 800 watt amps. I'm safe with the amp running 8 ohms into the 400 watt Aguilar 2x10 or 4 ohms with the 2x10 and 300 watt 1x12 together as long as I don't turn it all the way up.
Overall the issue is that I'm just not blown away by the Mesa tone like I hoped I would be. It's powerful enough and the tone is good enough. I just want amp nirvana which I have to assume I will never get to anyway. Something along the lines of very warm lows and low mids that are crystal clear with really good note separation without any mud. Almost how a really good PA can be. But now that I think about it, thats probably more cab related than amp anyway.
Thanks for the input

 

[heavyd3253]

Your cab choice might be the root of your problem. An SL210 with a DB112 might be different enough in voicing that you're experiencing some phase cancellations. Either two SL series or two DB series Aguilars might have been a better choice - and a 210 and 112 might not be enough displacement/volume to begin with.

Jaco, I was thinking that too so I wrote to Aguilar and they didn't think it would be a problem. When i used both I keep them about 10-15 feet apart on the other side of the drummer so the cancellation wouldn't be apparent where I'm standing. But still Aguilar didn't think it would matter much. I agree that 210 and 112 might not be enough as well. When I run my 410 i do find the volume is a little better. As I mentioned in another reply, the volume isn't even really my issue. It's more something that surprised me since both the MarkBass and the Mesa are 800 watts but the Markbass seems so much louder. Still, it's loud enough as its setup. It doesn't sound bad if I crank the Master up to 3-4:00 and really shake the room.

 

[lowphatbass]

 

[BassNugget]

Lab Gruppen?

 

[J Wilson]

The quick and simple answer? You seem to like MarkBass, add a second MB410, done.

Call us back, let us know how you're doing. Where is Amp Nirvana, anyway?

 

[gstaats]

Go modular? I've been super happy running a mesa subway+ DI preamp pedal paired to a crown xls-2502 power amp or a crown xls-1502. Can't think of many situations where running the 2505 into 4 ohms bridged wouldn't be sufficient. Even if the subway pedal isn't your jam, find one that is. For grit, I'm using a genzler 4 on the floor overdrive pedal as an always on pedal on my pedal chain. Lots of options.

 

[SJan3]

I've been playing bass for about 15 years now. With the exception of a small 1x10 GK amp when i first started, my main combo for playing by myself and occasionally with friends has been a MarkBass CMD112. I was blown away when I first played it and shocked by how loud and clean it was. I also bought a Markbass Little Mark Tube 800 and an 8 ohm MarkBass 4x10 rear port cab for shows. That had not gotten much use but recently with the new band I'm in I started using it again. I have never pushed that beyond 12:00 Gain or even 11:00 Master and its LOUD and clean.
So I got to thinking that maybe MarkBass, while very good, isn't the BEST amp out there (I know "best" is subjective and not the right term anyway but bear with me). So I bought a Mesa Subway TT-800 because I always liked Mesa guitar amps and that model seemed the best of what they offer. I liked the two channels and the idea of one being a "warmer more vintage tube channel" while the Subway channel is more like the "modern solid state tight, clean, scooped and punchy" amps such as my MarkBass. I also purchased an Aguilar SL210 and DB112 to go with it because I did not like the Subway cabs.
To be honest though, the Mesa isn't what I thought it would be. It's good but I often need to take the Gain to 1-2:00 and the Master to 1:00 to be heard with my band. It doesn't cut through the mix the way the Markbass does either. I've tried different cab combinations but keep arriving at the same conclusion. The Markbass is just "better."
But I still want to find the ultimate warm and punchy bass amp with plenty of headroom. On board compressor would be nice but not necessary. So I've been looking at the Genzler Magellan 800, Ashdown CTM 200 or 300, Ashdown ABM 600 DualVu EVO IV 600, GK Fusion 800 or an SVT Classic (which is tough because I have mostly single 8 ohm cabs I want to use). I know its tough to figure this stuff out without actually playing them but there's no where around me that would have these amps in stock. I can play the 2 Ashdowns at a place about an hour away but thats it. So any feedback or opinions on which I should order or try out would be appreciated. Or maybe I'm missing something on my list. I thought about Bergantino too but i can't find enough about them to justify adding them to the mix. I already have enough to choose from and the ones listed all have pros and cons. A true overdrive or distortion channel is not necessary beyong what my Mesa TT can do now which is a "pushed" sound with the tube Gain knob dimed but hardly a fuzz or a distortion. I play Warwick 4 strings mostly if that makes any difference.
Any help or advice is appreciated.
Thanks Guys!

Check out the new MarkBass Vintage 1000.
It's Mark King's amp of choice. Versatile amp with tube preamp, 1000 watts and built in variable limiter. Could be your "cup of booty".

 

[agedhorse]

The knob position doesn't matter one bit. The TT's gain and master volume controls operate throughout the entire range with ~20dB of additional gain beyond 12:00, many amps really only provide gain through about 12:00, with only maybe 6dB of gain beyond that.

What this does is give the IMPRESSION of a more powerful amp at the expense of most of the gain being available in the first half of the rotation.

Turn the TT up more, and you might read through the manual to learn more about how the eq options work, they are different on the Boogie channel versus the Subway channel.

 

[mikewalker]

"warm and punchy" and high-powered?
Hartke LH1000 fills the bill ...
Hartke LH1000 1000-watt Bass Head

 

[FunkMeister57]

SVT-6 Pro.

 

[Phaidrus]

I own two Markbass amps and a number of MB cabs and don't find the tone scooped at all. In fact, my impression is that they're flat or even slightly midrangey. They always stay on the warm side of clean. Yet I can get a usable scooped tone with my Little Mark Vintage head by setting the three-way selector to "scooped". As suggested above, adding a second 8Ohm 410 cab could be the ticket. I can imagine it'll give give you massive full bodied sound with tons of headroom.

 

[willddd]

Could be the cabs. I had markbass CMD121H and extra 12. I could hear it great on any stage at any volume standing right in front of it, was hit and miss when not right in front.
Replaced with Berg BAmp (also an AG700 in there in between) and 212. Beautiful sound all around the stage, but not necessarily as easy to hear right in front of it at high volume (and it gets super loud), put a markbass 210 on top of the 212 and now everything is perfect, the markbass poke certainly cuts through at close range and high volume.

 

[Ewo]

The knob position doesn't matter one bit. The TT's gain and master volume controls operate throughout the entire range with ~20dB of additional gain beyond 12:00, many amps really only provide gain through about 12:00, with only maybe 6dB of gain beyond that.

What this does is give the IMPRESSION of a more powerful amp at the expense of most of the gain being available in the first half of the rotation.

Turn the TT up more, and you might read through the manual to learn more about how the eq options work, they are different on the Boogie channel versus the Subway channel.

OP, consider this ^. It's for real. One of the striking differences between the Mesa Subway heads* and most other amps is that the effect of every control is even, throughout their rotation. Don't fret about knob position. Turn the knob until the sound is the way you want.

* I've owned and gigged each of the Subway amps, and currently use the WD and TT.

 

[el murdoque]

The knob position doesn't matter one bit.

This. It is best practice to find out what the amp is capable of. Some people seem to be uncomfortable to play with a knob in a postition that is too extreme, though.

I've played a lot of amps where the master did increase the total volume in a more or less linear way up until 12 o'clock, with a little less happening up until 2 o'clock and not much happening between 2 o'clock and max.

I've played others where the master increased the volume in a close to linear fashion all the way through.

If the latter and the former have the same volume with the latter's master at 2 o'clock and the former's at noon,
the latter is still the louder amp when push comes to shove.

 

[Jefus]

I'll add more support for the TT800. When I got mine I wasn't blown away when I turned it on. It took some time dialing it in for my basses (I did some tube rolling as well, but I was trying to achieve something different than you are), but now I couldn't be happier.

As @agedhorse said, read through the manual and don't be afraid to twist the knobs and hit the Deep switch. You already have it so it's free to experiment.

 

[MVE]

Fdeck, I totally hear where you're coming from with exploring the settings on the Mesa fully before writing it off. I normally turn the Mids up to 3:00 or so and keep them on the "Normal" setting on the Boogie channel 90% of the time. I use the Hi-Pass filter a little too to clean up the bottom end. I keep it on High Input, no deep or bright turned on.
One thing I find about the Markbass is that having the mids split between High and Low really adds flexibility. On the MarkBass I crank the LoMids and drop the HiMids slightly. This allows it to really cut through in my opinion, whether I'm using the 2x10 Aguilar or the 4x10 MarkBass.
Also, volume isn't my main issue with the Mesa, I know I have room to go with the knobs. It's more that I was surprised out how different the Volume setting were between two different 800 watt amps. I'm safe with the amp running 8 ohms into the 400 watt Aguilar 2x10 or 4 ohms with the 2x10 and 300 watt 1x12 together as long as I don't turn it all the way up.
Overall the issue is that I'm just not blown away by the Mesa tone like I hoped I would be. It's powerful enough and the tone is good enough. I just want amp nirvana which I have to assume I will never get to anyway. Something along the lines of very warm lows and low mids that are crystal clear with really good note separation without any mud. Almost how a really good PA can be. But now that I think about it, thats probably more cab related than amp anyway.
Thanks for the input

Sounds like you need a Bergantino cab with a Forte or B-amp with the speaker cab match.