Double Bass Best Musician in the Band -- Get a Different Band?

[PauFerro]

Pat Metheny quoted someone who said that if you're the best person in the band you should get a different band. That way you can progress as a musician.

What are your thoughts on this? Is it true? Or are there ever reasons for playing with a group of musicians you are still learning and maybe not as accomplished as you are, as a musician?

 

[Core Creek]

Money.

 

[Sam Evans]

Of course! You might just be in it for the fun and hang, playing with friends and having a good time. Not everyone wants to become a pro, after all. If you're the best person in the band and you can use that to help other people have fun, then all the better.

 

[bassobrutto]

If everyone followed Pat's advice, there wouldn't be any bands.

 

[Don Hergert]

To me, it depends on whether a person is a musician or an entrepreneur.

For a musician, playing with people who are not as advanced is more challenging and makes a more flexible and well rounded advanced musician.

For an entrepreneur the emphasis is on income advancement, and playing in a musically advanced, well known band means more money.

A balanced combination of the two, an advanced musician and a successful entrepreneur, is a great goal.

 

[Lee Moses]

For a musician, playing with people who are not as advanced is more challenging and makes a more flexible and well rounded advanced musician.

Interesting thought. There are certainly challenges to playing with "lesser" musicians, for want of a better term. But my own musicianship has accelerated when playing with more advanced musicians. I can interact with them on a much higher level, I can learn from them, they set a higher bar that challenges me to rise to it, I can give subtleties the attention they deserve rather than just making sure the tune doesn't end in a train wreck. Etc.

 

[Peteyboy]

I agree with what he said, but it's still preferable to being the worst player in your band.

 

[klokker]

If everyone followed Pat's advice, there wouldn't be any bands.

This is irrefutable.

 

[Kansas]

I like helping people. It's amazing what advancements players can make with some sage advice, about things like stage presence, mic technique, conviction and energy, leadership.

 

[oren]

I was at a jazz camp a few years ago, and at the outset I was disappointed with the level of the other players in the combo I was placed in. At some point I expressed my feeling to @Chris Fitzgerald , who was on the faculty of the camp. Chris said something like along the lines of “Have you had experiences where you’re playing with people better than you and they lift your level of playing higher?”, to which I replied that I had indeed had those experiences. And he then gently suggested, “Maybe this is an opportunity to pay some of that forward.” After that sage advice I relaxed and really enjoyed my week playing in that combo, and by the end of the week, under the mentorship of the great trumpet player Bobby Shew, we actually sounded pretty good. I guess the point is that there are things to be gained from a wide range of situations, even though they’re not always exactly what you expect.

 

[Chris Fitzgerald]

@oren I don’t remember that exact conversation, but it’s advice I give in improv classes often. It’s just a fact of life that sometimes things swing one way, and sometimes the other. I can think of so many wonderful situations where I was the weakest player on the bandstand and was lifted by those more experienced. And of course, other situations where the paradigm was the same and the more experienced players were either blatantly or passive aggressively vibey and negative. When the roles are reversed, as long as the less experienced players are doing their best, given the choice I’d rather opt for the former.

When I find myself in that situation now, I try to be supportive both musically and personally. Musically, that means taking only as many chances as I think the other players can handle, exploring to discover their limits and gently prodding them to trust enough to play at the outer edge of their ability while giving them the feeling that if they get off balance, I’ll be there to center things the moment the balance is lost. This is what my more experienced role models have always done, and to me it’s the best possible outcome for that situation.

Not coincidentally, this is also what happens when playing in groups with my peers of equal experience. Just the other night I had a nice gig with the group that I consider the local “all star team” - Mike Hyman, Jacob Duncan, and Gabe Evens, great players I have played and recorded with for decades. What I love about them is that they are always pushing boundaries and going for something new. When you play this way, sometimes things inevitably spin out of control for a moment. When this happens, collectively everyone will pull back for a second and settle things to make sure everything is cool before launching off again into the unknown. It’s a social instinct that everyone in the band has developed over their entire careers.

An old friend and former collaborator once described this scenario nicely as Rosie the maid swooping in to clean up a mess from the old show “The Jetsons”: somebody makes a mess, and immediately Rosie swoops in, a little trap door in her middle opens, and two arms with a whisk broom and a dustpan pop out and clean up the mess. Rosie swoops back out and all is well. I’ve always liked that analogy. We all get to be Rosie sometimes.

 

[jj.833]

Pat Metheny quoted someone who said that if you're the best person in the band you should get a different band. That way you can progress as a musician.

My long time observations say that people who live up to this creed advance fast... and from those I met, no one does the music anymore.

 

[lordradish]

Pat Metheny quoted someone who said that if you're the best person in the band you should get a different band. That way you can progress as a musician.

What are your thoughts on this? Is it true? Or are there ever reasons for playing with a group of musicians you are still learning and maybe not as accomplished as you are, as a musician?

I've always strived to be the worst in the band. Well, not really, but I always try to play with people better than me, as it pushes me to new heights. At this point in my life, playing almost 40 years, I don't see any reason why I'd want to be the best person in the band. I'd find that very frustrating.

I certainly do get the merits of paying it forward - after all, lots of musicians above my skill level have certainly put up with me over the years - but that's just not aligned with what I want to do, right now.

 

[buldog5151bass]

Depends. If you aren't, that means someone else in your band IS. Do you want your best player to leave?

 

[brianrost]

are there ever reasons for playing with a group of musicians you who are still learning and maybe not as accomplished as you are, as a musician?

Reasons? You're enjoying yourself, the music you're playing is fun and maybe you can make some money doing it.

The Metheny quote is taken out of context. The reason to get into bands with players who are better than you are is to learn and improve your own playing

 

[NickyBass]

Someone once told me that if you sound good in the practice room, you are practicing the wrong thing. I didn't take that literally, but it did help shape my practice routine and give it more structure. I think saying to play with better musicians is kind of an adage to help give people confidence to throw themselves into situation that will help them improve. I don't think it was meant as a hard and fast rule. It's just a more poetic way of saying that you should challenge yourself so that you can improve. I've heard this one before, and that's the way I take it.

 

[DanDBassist]

Pat Metheny quoted someone who said that if you're the best person in the band you should get a different band. That way you can progress as a musician.

What are your thoughts on this? Is it true? Or are there ever reasons for playing with a group of musicians you are still learning and maybe not as accomplished as you are, as a musician?

I have been playing since 1962 and usually with better players. It has been a rewarding experience. Now, at 74 years old, I am with players who have progressed since joining and it is rewarding also. Both situations have there benefits.

 

[BassicJazzy]

Unless you want to play "lead bass" I think this is correct, but others here have made some good points too. I guess it depends on what your goals are? Personally, I wasted lots of time in my youth playing with people who didn't know how to play so gained nothing from the interaction other than entertainment, plus stroking my own ego for how good I sounded, in comparison? One thing is true, though, I never put down my instrument and stopped playing if someone else shows they did not know what they were doing. It was always fun anyway. So I guess I just contradicted myself? Oh well, I'm old, and confused, just a caveman who plays bass....

 

[ole Jason]

I'm lucky to do a gig every Sunday where I'm the weakest member of the band. It has been an incredibly rewarding experience and I'm definitely playing way better than I was when we first started this gig about a year ago. It's great knowing I can take chances and there is enough of a safety net provided from the other guys that we can get back on track if my mistakes send us a little sideways. I think being able to play through and recover from mistakes is a really valuable skill that can be hard to grow in the practice room. Personally I enjoy hearing great players mess up on gigs and how they recover, it's fun hearing people stretch themselves.

I used to get really down and out after sessions where I bombed or people noticeably vibed my playing. I try to approach those situations with humility nowadays, they can provide great insights and takeaways for future practice.

 

[Bruce Calin]

When I left a steady gig(when those existed) 40+ years ago to become a freelancer I took pretty much any gig that came my way and learned a lot about where I fit in the pro scheme of things. If I subbed in a band with more experienced older players I learned a lot. They were generally supportive and helpful when they realized I could play but was new to the scene. I also learned that there were other groups that for one reason or another I didn't want to be a part of after one gig. Learning where you fit both musically and otherwise is all part of the experience. Now that I'm involved with student groups it helps me to recall my earlier days and to be as patient and positive as those players were with me in my early freelancing days.