Best polyphonic octaver for chords?

[Les Fret]

You could download Neuro (SA editing software for PC, Mac, iOS or Android) and try out available comunity patches without the C4 pedal.

I have the Neuro app on my pc. I have a SA Spectrum. But how do I try out C4 patches without the actual pedal?

 

[Ritter667]

Edit: TLDR diagrams

To add a nice octave-up sound to a dry bass without all the warble and harsh string noise artifacts :
View attachment 7317492

To play bass but have it sound like guitar only (some tone / dirt probably required):
View attachment 7317493



Original long winded comment:
______________________


I’ve bloviated about this hundreds of times, so pardon me for the following rant

To remove the glassy warble sound of the typical octave up pedal, I have built/used a dedicated fx loop/sidechain with some filtering. The most simple version is essentially a Low Pass between the bass and the Oct input, and then another low pass or EQ AFTER the octaver.. In addition to that, I generally prefer to also have a dedicated wet/dry blend on the utility box.. this is simply because if I low pass the signal into the octaver, and try to use its built-in clean knob, the clean sound is necessarily lowpassed as well.. adding a dedicated dry blend means that you can have string noise on the dry signal without it, creating those glassy artifacts on the octave up

Doing this filtering, etc. really gives that type of Octave-up pedal a huge improvement on the sweetspot and subtlety of the sound


all that being said
—————

If what you are trying to do is emulate/add/replace a guitar by playing it on bass, it takes at least a little more effort.. the approach above will mostly work fine if you are combining the dry bass sound with the octave, like a guitar and bass doubling eachother

If what you really want is to play your bass, but have it come out like a guitar- add a high pass on the dry signal, and crank it up to where all your really getting out of it is string noise and upper harmonics. How good this sounds will depend on a lot of things, including dirt etc that’s downstream


BUT let me just say you’re probably going to end up pretty disappointed because as I mentioned in another reply, complex chords just do not do well… If you want to play Root-5th-and a major 10th (3rd), it will sound pretty decent.. but even minor does much worse with the same voicing, and anything more complex than fifths and major thirds starts to suffer a lot just due to the nature of how it actually works.. I don’t know if the more expensive boxrs like Eventide or the newer stuff work better than POGs etc.. but just judging off of what I’ve heard on recordings and videos and demos, I think they all work more or less the same, and we suffer from the same problems. As good as Janek Gwizdala is at playing a pedal as an instrument, even he can’t seem to pull off complex chords without the warble sound that I find detestable.

This is very basically what I do in the Toneprint editor for my Sub'N'Up Mini.

It allows you to EQ both the signal going to the octave engine, as well as the octaved signal post the engine, including HP and LP filters if you wish, and it even allows you to apply overdrive to the octaved signal.

 

[logdrum]

Thanks. That Meris Enzo X is very interesting, but more focussed on synth sounds. The SA C4 is also more synth sound, not sure if the pitch shifting is that great? I already have an SA Spectrum. I also have a H9 but that doesn't do polyphonic pitch shifting.

Because the DSP and math required to sample the polyphonic tones then repitch i them is very intensive, that is why many will output a wave table instead or in some cases a sine/square or triangle wave like the POG. Meris and H90 comes very close to the actual sound, The more complex the source, the harder to shift it.,

 

[Geogio]

 

[mikeswals]

I believe the Bass Whammy and a Micropog would do the trick. The Pog does sound a bit "organ" like. Distortion does tame it a bit. Whammy sounds better and tracks great.

Shameless plug. I have one of each in the classifieds.

I own both, love them for different reasons. For poly up, I use my MicroPOG; in the mix of a band no one can tell is sounds organ-like, and thats all that matters to me, a band mix. I Especially love that the octaves have thier own volumes.
The Bass Whammy doesn't have adjustable volumes, so my biggest complaint is its volume is a hair low when engaged.

 

[eddododo]

This is very basically what I do in the Toneprint editor for my Sub'N'Up Mini.

It allows you to EQ both the signal going to the octave engine, as well as the octaved signal post the engine, including HP and LP filters if you wish, and it even allows you to apply overdrive to the octaved signal.

Wow that’s great to know

 

[eddododo]

Oh wow I did forget about the C4.. i’ve never really set it up to use like that, but I feel like I remember it working pretty well in passing.. if I get some time tomorrow, I’ll test out some chords on a basic octave up setting

I don’t feel like it will be a game changer within that genre of octave sound, but I am pretty sure it behaves at the top of its class.. I feel like they all track really well, but it has a particularly good tracking algorithm and seemingly has more processing power than the average octaver… plus the dual in/out will help a lot in simplifying the tonal tricks I mentioned, esp since it has some onboard eq options.

It’s also surprisingly affordable, unless the market has gone real crazy

 

[RattleSnack]

I have the Neuro app on my pc. I have a SA Spectrum. But how do I try out C4 patches without the actual pedal?

Here's a screenshot from my Android phone, should be same for any OS version.



I searched community presets by keyword "+1", and set filter (button in upper right corner) to C4 or compatibile.
When results list is populated, just click on Play, on the right. First, bypassed test sound is played, then affected. You can see Player in the footer and change test sound.

 

[Les Fret]

Here's a screenshot from my Android phone, should be same for any OS version.

View attachment 7317924

I searched community presets by keyword "+1", and set filter (button in upper right corner) to C4 or compatibile.
When results list is populated, just click on Play, on the right. First, bypassed test sound is played, then affected. You can see Player in the footer and change test sound.

I only have the desktop version of the Neuro, version 0.8.60. I can load the presets of the C4 but I don't know how to listen to them. I don't see any play button. Any ideas? It looks like this:

 

[RattleSnack]

I only have the desktop version of the Neuro, version 0.8.60. I can load the presets of the C4 but I don't know how to listen to them. I don't see any play button. Any ideas? It looks like this:

View attachment 7317950

That's pretty old version; you need to download and install latest. It will look like this:

 

[Les Fret]

That's pretty old version; you need to download and install latest. It will look like this:

View attachment 7317953

ok thanks. I am running behind. I just tested my SA Spectrum (which has a lot of the same options as the C4, besides the synths) again. The octave up sound is very synthy, not guitar-like at all. And it can handle only one note at a time. So for guitar-like chords/arpeggios or solos this doesn't work. I guess the same goes for the C4?

 

[WaldoNova]

I own both, love them for different reasons. For poly up, I use my MicroPOG; in the mix of a band no one can tell is sounds organ-like, and thats all that matters to me, a band mix. I Especially love that the octaves have thier own volumes.
The Bass Whammy doesn't have adjustable volumes, so my biggest complaint is its volume is a hair low when engaged.

Totally forgot about the lack of volume control with the Whammy. It's to bad since it does sound a fair bit "better". I've found that the individual volumes of the MicroPog was what set it apart for me, YMMV. Interestingly enough I found that in the POG family(Pog, Pog2,micro, mini, etc.) That the sounds and uses can be different. For instance i couldn't get a balanced oct.+1 and the original note that sounded distinguished enough in a mix on the POG2 but I could get it perfectly on the MicroPog. So maybe try a couple of the different iterations to get what you're looking for. It's worth checking out just for the 0 latency alone. They track incredibly fast.

The C4 suggestion is valid however, IME, the C4 doesn't track as quickly as the MicroPog. It does sound less "organ like".

Im very curious to find out which pedal the OP ends up with.

 

[RattleSnack]

ok thanks. I am running behind. I just tested my SA Spectrum (which has a lot of the same options as the C4, besides the synths) again. The octave up sound is very synthy, not guitar-like at all. And it can handle only one note at a time. So for guitar-like chords/arpeggios or solos this doesn't work. I guess the same goes for the C4?

C4 has polyphonic tracking, you can try it in Neuro with sample tracks (guitars and so on). I just tried it and you're right that +1 is synthy. Light distortion didn't help much, but envelope filter did.
Yeah, it's a matter of taste, it might not be good enough for you, but at least you can try it for free and get the idea.
I certainly don't use it that way: for me it's all about complex (multivoice) synth bass -1 and 0 octave patches, I guess that's where C4 shines.

 

[sunbeast]

ok thanks. I am running behind. I just tested my SA Spectrum (which has a lot of the same options as the C4, besides the synths) again. The octave up sound is very synthy, not guitar-like at all. And it can handle only one note at a time. So for guitar-like chords/arpeggios or solos this doesn't work. I guess the same goes for the C4?

There is a Polyphonic Pitch engine in the C4, but it is nothing special (synthetic tone, doesn't track complex intervals well) and I've never found a use for it with bass at all.

 

[Les Fret]

Experimented some more with the gear I already have. I am pretty pleased with the octave up guitar sound that I made on my Axe fx II today. Uploaded a quick video of the guitar part from Sting's Shape of my Heart in original pitch. Played on my Yamaha BB1000S bass. What do you think?

 

[Les Fret]

Ok the contenders now are EHX Pitchfork or Bass Whammy or Whammy 5.
Do you think any of these are better than what you hear in above video?
How do these behave to more complex chords (quartal harmony or 9 chords and so on)?

 

[sillyfabe]

It’s overkill but I use this for chords. The filter/resonance control can control the synth/brittleness. The spectral gate can help as well And if need be the decay/envelope can be used to fine tune it even more.

I run all my dirt and synth INTO it and it’s a beast!

 

[Michedelic]

Ok the contenders now are EHX Pitchfork or Bass Whammy or Whammy 5.
Do you think any of these are better than what you hear in above video?
How do these behave to more complex chords (quartal harmony or 9 chords and so on)?

I’m a little late to these proceedings, but I’m a fan of the Pitchfork.

 

[Les Fret]

I’m a little late to these proceedings, but I’m a fan of the Pitchfork.

Thanks. How does is track complex chords with octave up solo? Does it start to warble fast with more complex voicings?