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Bi-amped PA-where to crossover?

Stinsok

Stinsok

Dec 16, 2002
7,464
3,487
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Central Alabama
#1
I run a bi-amp PA. I have 18'' subs and JBL SRX 12''/horn tops. Sometimes it seems like it's all lows and highs. I usually have the crossover set at 120 to 140HZ. The "high" side of the crossover is sent to the tops and into the full range inputs. From there, the internal speaker crossover for the tops are going to process whatever signal is sent to them (sometimes it's kinda harsh.) Just looking for advice on how to smooth things out.
 
#2
Hi.

Are You aiming for cheap, decent or good?

Cheap=EQ cross-over.
Decent=a rackmount passive cross-over.
Good=Loudspeaker management processor.

Since the cheap and decent are in the same ballpark price-wise, only the flexibility of the system is the deciding factor.

Surprisingly good results can be acchieved even with the Behringer DCX2496 without breaking the bank.

As for the specific EQ points, types and curves, IME there's no "one setting fits all" solution.

Regards
Sam
 
#3
try lowering that crossover point to about 100Hz or so.

totally flatten out whatever EQ you're using, set crossover at 100Hz, then adjust the levels of the crossover lows and highs to where it sounds as good as you can get it. then, use your EQ to fine-tune from there.
 
#4
walterw said:
try lowering that crossover point to about 100Hz or so.

totally flatten out whatever EQ you're using, set crossover at 100Hz, then adjust the levels of the crossover lows and highs to where it sounds as good as you can get it. then, use your EQ to fine-tune from there.
Click to expand...

You can also start with the EQ set to the lowest settings and work upward for each control. That way the difference between the highest and lowest setting are the max. db rating for the EQ.

You may have to replace the tops with a 15"/horn to get rid of the harshness if the EQ can't do it for you.

The SRX 12's I looked up were floor monitors. Don't know if that's what you have, but if it is, might be to much mid to sound good with the subs, even after EQ'ing them.
 
#6
JBL's sound brittle. All of them. It's their downfall. Those tops(wedges) have a very weak mid range. You should actully tri-amp this rig. 30 % better on the tops. You WILL need to get a DSP though, sorry. 2X6.
Try pricing the BBE digital. They sound a bit better then the DCX. Get the SR12 data on JBL and work with a DSP. THEN use your graph (cuz yur gonna havta) and take some of the nasty brittle-ness out. Those wedges CAN make decent tops. It's just a bit of work.
They are considered pro wedges. Never seen them get turned down by tours. They cut on stage just fine.
 
#8
My simple solution for finding a crossover point it plug a bass into a channel on the board and start playing the E and A string while turning the crossover knob. One thing I cannot stand is when the cross over point is right where the majority of my bass freq is coming through at. It seems I always loose something. I thind to try to get my E and A strings in the subs, D and G in the tops. Aside from kick drum and a little floor tom bass freq is really all there is in the subs, so find out what sounds the best for your rig and equipment.
 
#11
Gotcha, I'm sorry for using the work 'insanely'. It came across much more abrasive than I thought, I didn't mean to sound snotty.

My subs are crossed over in the 80-100 region, and I think the biggest problem the OP has here is the very hot sound you get from JBL. Its already been mentioned above, but I will second the idea of a Graphic eq, or a driverack to flatten out the harshness of the system.

Derek
 
#12
Hi.

Stumbo said:
You can also start with the EQ set to the lowest settings and work upward for each control. That way the difference between the highest and lowest setting are the max. db rating for the EQ.
Click to expand...

walterw said:
??

you start with the EQ flat.
Click to expand...

Don't know if Stumbo described using the EQ as a cross-over or not like I did, but in EQ cross-over use You always start from -12 or whatever the lowest setting is.

On most cheaper EQ's it's also beneficial to start from low in order to stay below 0 line, because no boost is way better than boost/cut. IMLE, IMHO only of course.

Regards
Sam
 
#15
90-100Hz is the normal point to run things in typical club PAs. higher than that starts to put boomy mid-bass into the subs.
 
#16
Thanks for all the input folks. As for the eq, I always start flat. My PA is a mishmash of components that I horsetraded for or scoured the planet and found at a killer price. Everything is used and will be eventually replaced. Just an FYI on what I have-

Mackie CR1604 mixer (with xlr expander)
Art Dual 31 band eq
Quadraverb FX
(2) Behringer MDX 2200 compressors (I know...but I got them both for $35.00 and I think they are better than Alesis 3630's) Each vocal channel and kick drum are compressed.
dBX crossover
Carvin DC1000 for monitors
Crest vS900 for tops
Crest 3001 for subs
JBL tops
18'' subs
 
#17
not bad for scraped-together stuff.

be sure to use the 40Hz cutoff on the DBX crossover.

don't bother to compress the kick drum. it might be useful to use the gate function on that drum, however, so you can boost its low end without it feeding back.

compressing individual vocal channels is a bad idea, because you then compress their monitors, too. compressed monitors sound weak, feed back, and blow out singer's voices.

you want to insert a compressor on a subgroup or a left or right main out, then pan all vocals into that group or out and all instruments out of it. if it's a main L or R out, pan vocals hard one way and instruments the other, then run the system itself out of the mono out.

this compresses all the vocals out front without compressing the monitors.
 
#18
With this Mackie, if a channel monitor switch is depressed the signal going to the monitors is not affected by changes in the eq and it does not trigger the compressors. Only when the fader is up for that channel the signal is compressed (out front.) Odd, I know.
 
#19
Stinsok said:
With this Mackie, if a channel monitor switch is depressed the signal going to the monitors is not affected by changes in the eq and it does not trigger the compressors. Only when the fader is up for that channel the signal is compressed (out front.) Odd, I know.
Click to expand...

That's actually how most nicer consoles work(or can be configured to work), the monitor section is pre-EQ and pre-insert. Some boards are pre-EQ but post-insert, sometimes you get a separate EQ for the monitor path. Sometimes this stuff is switchable. Almost all cheap mixers have the aux sends post EQ, which kinda sucks unless you have some spare channels. You end up having to EQ the monitor mix as you EQ the FOH, sometimes making one worse to make the other better.
 

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