bi(tri?)-amping bass

[tmsteph]

You hear a good bit about bi amping guitars (splitting signal from guitar going through 2 amps, miking both) to get a thick sound. Has anyone tried this on bass? Is it worth the effort?

Im contemplating using a old ampeg fliptop through a 1x15 played full tilt for grit plus using a GK micing one of the 4x10 speakers and also using a di for the super low end definition.

Any feedback would be much appreciated!

mike

 

[DuraMorte]

If your recording room is untreated for standing waves, chances are good that recording live bass will not sound satisfactory.
When I record my bass, I DI only, and then re-amp through software plugins to achieve the tones I want, sometimes using two or three tracks with different processing on each.

You're absolutely welcome to try, though; it has been done before. Just be aware of phasing issues when micing more than one source.

 

[bassbrad]

I agree with DuraMorte that recording a DI and reamping is more ideal, unless you have a great room and mic it's pretty difficult to beat models that are available in most multi efx or plug ins depending on your platform.

 

[Passinwind]

You hear a good bit about bi amping guitars (splitting signal from guitar going through 2 amps, miking both) to get a thick sound. Has anyone tried this on bass? Is it worth the effort?

Im contemplating using a old ampeg fliptop through a 1x15 played full tilt for grit plus using a GK micing one of the 4x10 speakers and also using a di for the super low end definition.

Any feedback would be much appreciated!

mike

I sometimes like to use 2 room mikes and a rig similar to what you're talking about. That's not always really biamping in the usual sense, although it can be if you are using a crossover too.

Is it worth the effort? Live, absolutely, for me at least. Recording? Depends on what other tools you have available, and of course on the room.

 

[spigmu]

I do like to send it to a solid bass amp for depth and then a guitar amp with all the bottom rolled off the amp, nothing boosted. I've tried all kinds of variations, like eq'ing it differently on the way to each amp, or squashing the hell out of one, and always go back to not doing those. If it's a trio I might add direct also. Sometimes that can make the bass too 3D sounding, or complex, so it doesn't find an easy place in a mix that doesn't have the space to give. Same as an acoustic guitar with 3 mics panned wide might sound great for a guitar/vocal but if it's a band I'll cut it to 2 and mono it. Sounds terrific but it doesn't always work for the greater good.

Plugins are good, but you have to keep in mind the latency that each one might be adding and if your DAW is compensating for it or not. Not so much for timing but for phase and how it changes the relationship to the other low end tracks that worked before adding them to the bass. I also haven't found a plugin that I like for bass distortion, even blended in. Reamping is great. Get a cheap reamp box or roll your own. Another alternative is to get ahold of a head that has a line in/amp in, or an effects loop that you can kludge for it. Turning down the level from the DAW usually isn't enough, since the impedance is different.

 

[Passinwind]

If your recording room is untreated for standing waves, chances are good that recording live bass will not sound satisfactory.
When I record my bass, I DI only, and then re-amp through software plugins to achieve the tones I want, sometimes using two or three tracks with different processing on each.

That can sound great, but IME I also need to be able to monitor those EFX in real time while I play, especially when using ping pong delays or other loopy type stuff. Same for distortion, especially the flavors that depend on feedback.

 

[DuraMorte]

That can sound great, but IME I also need to be able to monitor those EFX in real time while I play, especially when using ping pong delays or other loopy type stuff. Same for distortion, especially the flavors that depend on feedback.

If you have those effects in hardware, then (if I were recording you) I would DI your bass before them all, but let you play through them while you track.
I do the same for my guitar players; I run them straight to the board, but I let them play their amps, and then re-amp them later to get the tones they want (and not the ones they think they want).

 

[Passinwind]

If you have those effects in hardware, then (if I were recording you) I would DI your bass before them all, but let you play through them while you track.
I do the same for my guitar players; I run them straight to the board, but I let them play their amps, and then re-amp them later to get the tones they want (and not the ones they think they want).

I've done that many times (or just use a scratch plugin track for monitoring to get the general feel), and I understand your very valid distinction on wants and later needs. As long as you also record what I actually hear, and keep my options open for using those tracks (ie stereo miking) that's a great approach. All of this is fairly moot for my personal situation though, since I just track bass and drums live in the room 98% of the time, and live with what I get.

Of course, when I'm using acoustic feedback it will still get into that nice clean DI signal...

 

[DuraMorte]

I've done that many times (or just use a scratch plugin track for monitoring to get the general feel), and I understand your very valid distinction on wants and later needs. As long as you also record what I actually hear, and keep my options open for using those tracks (ie stereo miking) that's a great approach. All of this is fairly moot for my personal situation though, since I just track bass and drums live in the room 98% of the time, and live with what I get.

For myself (i.e. bass), I really don't know what I want to hear to begin with. I record the tracks dry, and then start playing with them, and eventually I figure out something that works.
I guess it's the fact that I'm relatively new to bass (not music, but bass), and haven't discovered my 'voice' yet. I'm still wearing my engineer's hat when I'm playing bass, too, so I worry about the mix as a whole all the time, and adjust my bass sound accordingly.

Of course, when I'm using acoustic feedback it will still get into that nice clean DI signal...

For guitar, that is VERY important. A re-amped signal won't feed back unless there is feedback on it to begin with, so that's why I record my guitarists live with amps, but only record the DI. All that yummy feedback is what makes the guitar tracks sing.

For bass, though, I would probably put your amp in the next room and have you wear headphones, to avoid getting all that noise into my nice clean DI.

 

[Passinwind]

For bass, though, I would probably put your amp in the next room and have you wear headphones, to avoid getting all that noise into my nice clean DI.

That won't work, the pickups are in the feedback loop.

Sometimes you can use that fact to your advantage too though. One of my favorite guitar tracks was recorded off a preamp-out feed from my tube amp, combined with the miked cab tracks. Just different flavors of dirt, in this case.