Double Bass Big Band players, do you use vibrato?

[jj.833]

Our Big band seems to be playing more and more ballads with more and more intricate arranges. Often I play long low notes, say a whole note Ab on E in BPM 60. The other instruments are sometimes dense, sometimes just piano with lots of the 9-, b5, #5 and alike. Nice stuff.
I'm experimenting with (pizz) vibrato, I feel it might make the overall feeling a little more... brittle, nicely fragile. But, as big bands go, I'm standing in the rear and can't hear all the soft details of others very clearly. I'm not able to judge objectively whether it helps the overall sound. The conductor focuses on horns mostly, so I haven't asked him (yet).

Does someone have some experience in this regard? Thanks!

 

[Wasnex]

Yes...as appropriate. IMHO, the depth and tempo of vibrato should be adjusted to the situation.

 

[Sekundus]

I play in a Bigband too and for Christmas we play some ballad stuff.
I use some vibrato and nobody said that this was impropriate. So i think it is all right, and i like it.

 

[sean_on_bass]

I use it musically when i hear that for that tune or section. Some situations call for it, others don't.

 

[uprightbass.com]

I only use it if it will be heard and use it selectively. So yes in ballads at the end of phrases where the note is held. Land on the note and work in a slow vibrato.

It’s like listening to a singer. Especiallly a great jazz singer since we’re talking specifically in big band. You ever hear a singer vibrato everything vs someone who uses it for timbre and texture? Same thing applied. Less is definitely more.

 

[notabene]

If you were to play the bass part as a solo bass, when would you use vibrato? Why not do the same as an accompanist?

 

[Sam Sherry]

It's always part of my musical toolkit. If it's a half-note or longer I'm likely to vibrate.

Our 3rd trumpet is a DB player, probably better than me.
The drummer's wife is a retired symphony DB player.
I do everything I can to look like a musician up there !

If you were to play the bass part as a solo bass, when would you use vibrato? Why not do the same as an accompanist?

No disagreement here but . . .
It's a big-band, man. There might be a bass solo every six months or so.

 

[uprightbass.com]

If you were to play the bass part as a solo bass, when would you use vibrato? Why not do the same as an accompanist?

I don't mean to imply not to do it as an accompanist. Just that as there are more and more instruments playing at the same time, the vibrato likely won't even be heard or noticed. At that point your note is likely a part of a chord so the nuance gets lost. If it's a part where it's me and the drums and the piano, then yeah, I think the vibrato would work great. But if you're out front as the soloist carrying the melody or thematic statement (and I don't necessarily mean improve soloist which is like never in big band), then yeah, vibrato works can sound really sweet at the end of phrases.

 

[turf3]

A pizzicato whole note at 60 BPM, and you think adding vibrato is going to do something? Come on. The note's already over after two beats.

 

[jj.833]

The note's already over after two beats.

Normally, yes. In silent ballads however, the tone, especially deep, lasts very long. I feel that the vibrato on low tones should be slow and deep to be heard. But the deep slow vibrato might perhaps mess with the pitch stability of the whole band. It won't on end of the rhythmic phrases... unless there's another horn phrase starting ahead of next bar, which is usually the case.

 

[turf3]

Reminds me of the story about the elderly trombonist: One day at rehearsal, the music director says "Now there in measure 64, let's cut that whole note off on 3." The guy next to the old gentleman says "Aren't you going to mark your part?" "Nah, I wasn't going to be able to hold that note that long anyway."

 

[jj.833]

"Nah, I wasn't going to be able to hold that note that long anyway."

It's a nice joke. Actually, I'm sure it's a true story, as I hear a few gems like this every rehearsal. Some recent:

Trumpet leader to 3rd trumpet: 'You can't play this? Then play F#, because it fits everywhere!'

A conductor to a guitarist: 'Now the guitar had much better rhythm than last time!'
Guitarist: 'Yes. I turned myself down.'

A conductor to rhythm section: 'This sounds like a funeral procession, when they go uphill.'

And conductor to me (guess why): 'You've got some kind of chorus on the bass?'

I could add more, but as it is off topic, the OP might get angry ;-)

 

[turf3]

A couple others:

"Now we're going to play this at tempo di learn-o"
"C'mon, play it molto testissimo!"

 

[Bruce Calin]

Vibrato can be a relaxation technique in general. Holding a note in place with no motion at all seems to me to encourage left hand tension. Whether or not it is even heard is less important. Big band playing can be tiring and every trick you can use to stay relaxed and play efficiently is useful.

 

[sean_on_bass]

Now that i think about it and analyze my playing, i really don't use much of any vibrato when playing time. When i am soloing or playing a melody, sometimes MAYBE, but not when i am walking. I think it depends on who you inspired by and the sound you want. The use of more vibrato when walking really drives toward a "modern" sound that i am not really into. I'm looking at you Eddie Gomez, lol. Same deal in a ballad. i keep the left hand firmly in place and let the string ring out without vibrato. To me that is the right sound for jazz bass.

So really, i guess i actually don't use vibrato at all in a big band and prefer that sort of sound.

 

[ctrlzjones]

This thread adds to the “lightness of touch” discussion. Knowing how to do vibrato is useful for overall tone production; even if you don’t switch it on, the possibility of going into it at any moment does help to make the note sing and grow and give it more expression; even if it’s more something like a “silent” vibrato that modulates not the frequencies but other parameters of the sound.

 

[John Goldsby]

IME, I try to nail the notes at the precise pitch in relation to the piano (or guitar) when playing pizz, especially on a ballad. No vibrato ... like the low strings of an in-tune piano. There's always a time and place for vibrato, but I hear my first obligation as providing the precise pitch for all of the other instruments to get in tune with. Vibrato can make the intonation a little wonky, especially in the low register. There might be many exceptions of course!

Here's an example of a ballad with the WDR Big Band on "My Romance" arranged by Dave Horler. The intro is unison bass trombone, piano and bass—vibrato wouldn't really help that passage. I want to match the pitches with the bass trombone and piano exactly, without any fuzziness around the core of the pitch. I don't really use any vibrato, as you can see at the little ensemble section snippet at 1:16 and at 1:29. When I play a solo beginning at 5:10, then I'm using vibrato on some of the notes. When I go back into time for the trumpet solo at about 6:15 then I’m not using vibrato. That's how I hear it

 

[John Goldsby]

Oh no, I killed the thread! Please carry on

 

[Don Kasper]

Oh no, I killed the thread! Please carry on

THANK YOU!!!!!
Some Threads get what they deserve. IMFO, of course.
Well Done, John!

 

[jj.833]

Oh no, I killed the thread!

Really nicely! WDR sounds better and better over time. Can't really imagine better big band sound. I'm looking forward to another thread you kill with even more beautiful record!
Merry Christmas!